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Topic ClosedWho was the first prog band to have metal elements

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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who was the first prog band to have metal elements
    Posted: December 12 2016 at 22:20
I'm actually not referring to the old bands from the seventies because that would be too easy. I'm referring to non prog metal bands from the post seventies era. Most of the 80's neo bands didn't really have metal elements so it was later than that. Again, I'm not talking about pure prog metal here. Just curious. I have a few in mind but want to hear other responses first. Smile

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 12 2016 at 22:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2016 at 22:44
Well in the 80's Pallas did have heavy rock/metal elements to their sound, albeit not as pronounced as on The Dreams of Men or XXV:

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2016 at 22:46
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I'm actually not referring to the old bands from the seventies because that would be too easy. I'm referring to non prog metal bands from the post seventies era. Most of the 80's neo bands didn't really have metal elements so it was later than that. Again, I'm not talking about pure prog metal here. Just curious. I have a few in mind but want to hear other responses first. Smile

But wouldn't any band after that initial classic period simply not be the first? 

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I'm referring to non prog metal bands from the post seventies era.

This is a little ambiguous... Are you asking for bands that aren't prog metal, or metal bands that aren't prog? Confused

I'm not quite sure what exactly you're asking for...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2016 at 23:18
It sounds like what he's interested in are bands that had varying blends of prog & metal but were not really a part of either subgenre, say like Saga.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2016 at 23:27
Well they ain't 70s era or later being merely 1969 but the first prog metal was probably a little known number called 21st Century Schizoid Man.

Some may be familiar with The Kanye West sample, others might be familiar with the King Crimson source of the sample. These same listeners might also think the aforementioned K. West (note subtle Ziggy reference) was a kind of prog metal if you fuse (Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em's Frank Spencer with Motorhead).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 02:02
Interesting question.

Of course there are the usual suspects: Led Zeppelin, Queen, Rainbow, Deep Purple, Judas Priest that influenced a lot of the NWOBHM that emerged in the 80's.
 
I think though that the real progmetal as we know it, started with Queenr˙che, Savatage, Fates Warning.
 
But King Crimson has been named a lot by metalbands, maybe because the heavy tone, the depressing tone. A lot of times a heard Red as a big influence to progmetal.

Other bands that are named a lot as a majoor influence are Kansas, Rush and Saga.
 
But in my collection I would say that Queen II (Ogre Battle) and Sheer Heart Attack (Flick of the Wrist) has some real heavy proto-heavy metal tendencies.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 02:03
Originally posted by Kingsnake Kingsnake wrote:

Interesting question.

Of course there are the usual suspects: Led Zeppelin, Queen, Rainbow, Deep Purple, Judas Priest, Uriah Heep that influenced a lot of the NWOBHM that emerged in the 80's.
 
I think though that the real progmetal as we know it, started with Queenr˙che, Savatage, Fates Warning.
 
But King Crimson has been named a lot by metalbands, maybe because the heavy tone, the depressing tone. A lot of times a heard Red as a big influence to progmetal.

Other bands that are named a lot as a majoor influence are Kansas, Rush and Saga.
 
But in my collection I would say that Queen II (Ogre Battle) and Sheer Heart Attack (Flick of the Wrist) has some real heavy proto-heavy metal tendencies.

And of Course Very Heavy Very Umble and Salisbury by Uriah Heep. The heavy metal riff of Gypsy is really simple and repetitive, but a great example of heavy metal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 07:37
Originally posted by Magnum Vaeltaja Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I'm actually not referring to the old bands from the seventies because that would be too easy. I'm referring to non prog metal bands from the post seventies era. Most of the 80's neo bands didn't really have metal elements so it was later than that. Again, I'm not talking about pure prog metal here. Just curious. I have a few in mind but want to hear other responses first. Smile

But wouldn't any band after that initial classic period simply not be the first? 

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I'm referring to non prog metal bands from the post seventies era.

This is a little ambiguous... Are you asking for bands that aren't prog metal, or metal bands that aren't prog? Confused

I'm not quite sure what exactly you're asking for...

First of the post seventies (to answer the first part).

I was looking for neither prog metal or metal that isn't prog. Not ambiguous. A band can have elements of something without being that thing.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 13 2016 at 07:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 07:42
From the 80s, what about Shub-Niggurath?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 07:48
The earliest example I could think of was Par Lindh Project's "Mundus Incompertus" from 1997. It's not pure prog metal imo but it definitely has strong elements of it in it.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 07:53
Originally posted by Flight123 Flight123 wrote:

From the 80s, what about Shub-Niggurath?

Listening now. So far no metal. I've never heard it before. Sounds good though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 09:29
how about The Red Masque?




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 09:55
Red Rider
Saga
Triumph
Styx

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 13:11
I like the Styx mention because "come sail away" does have a metallish guitar that comes in right after the synth section. Smile However, if we are going to go back that far you may as well mention KC "lark's tongues in aspic." ;) May as well mention Rush on that list too. 

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 13 2016 at 13:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 13:35
Rush - Permanent Waves -- released January 1, 1980.

EDIT... For another prog band that this time released their debut in 1980 (but not until June) and has a metal component: Cardiac Arrest's The Obvious Identity. Cardiac Arrest later renamed themselves as Cardiacs.

Edited by Logan - December 13 2016 at 14:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2016 at 20:51
I would throw in "I Want You (She's so Heavy)", from The Beatles. As for 80's songs, "Machine Messiah" by Yes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2016 at 02:36
Saga: Humble Stance and Will it be You? (1977)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2016 at 04:55
What even is prog metal anyway? Isn't it just heavy guitars in odd time signatures? In which case King Crimson would probably win it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2016 at 05:50
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

I would throw in "I Want You (She's so Heavy)", from The Beatles. As for 80's songs, "Machine Messiah" by Yes.

How about "Helter Skelter"?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2016 at 08:56
But he is asking about progressive bands post 70's. 

The Who ~ Baba O'Riley (1971)........

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