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BrufordFreak 
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Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
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 Topic: Is music only for the rich?
Posted: November 21 2016 at 12:01 |
I've been thinking of posting this topic for discussion for quite a while:
Is music only for the rich? that is, both the collection of music and the playing/composition/publishing of music? Is music another medium that incites or perpetuates elitism?
I had the privilege of being born into an affluent family in an affluent country (the U.S.), but I always thought I was incredibly lucky to have the means to buy music and musical instruments and recording equipment. So, can a "poor" or even "middle class" person hope to either collect music or become a musician?
I like the fact that anybody with a smart phone or tablet or computer can stream as much music as they could ever hope to hear, but even this is not quite the "equalizer" that it seems on the surface as every person needs to buy into the consumerist plan of keeping up with the latest (and "greatest") gadget and program in order to keep up with the advances in internet speed and access.
Is there anything we can do to bring access to music and musicianship to a broader spectrum of humanity (besides radio, television, and the Internet)?
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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BrufordFreak
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 12:10 |
When I think of music before the age of electricity and its innovations in recording and broadcasting, I think of families, communities, celebrations, oral traditions, and, of course, hand-made acoustic instruments. Isn't this music in its purest form? Aren't there still occasions of virtuosity and innovation within community and group dynamics?
I don't think anyone here will argue that music performed live, in front of an audience or with a participating community of singers and dancers, provides the most powerful psycho-spiritual experience possible. Is this the direction we should be thinking of returning to? Bands like Aranis and Five-Storey Ensemble and Karda Estra and many in the AltrOck Productions stable seem to be preparing us for such a swelling of promise.
But I'm just dreaming out loud here. Sorry. I'll wake up again soon.
Is music for the rich only?
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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ALotOfBottle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 17 2016
Location: Lublin, Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1990
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 12:28 |
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I am interested to see where this topic goes. I can only speak for myself and my family. My dad grew up during Poland's transition from the communist regime to the independent capitalist state. Our family was never very rich, but we always easily made ends meet, no problem. My dad was born into "your typical middle-middle-class urban intelligentsia", as I have. In the early 90's, he became associated with the Polish independent music scene, working with a rather well-known death-metal band Vader and a few magazines among many other things. Anyway, long story short, thanks to some gifts he got from record labels and even bands from all around the world, he was able to build up a pretty big collection of music. We have about 6000 CDs, a couple thousand casettes and a bit less than a thousand vinyl records. It's not like he received everything, though, just to make it clear. Not being an adult yet, I get enough pocket money from my parents to get myself one or two albums every month.
Sorry if my post was a bit boring and too personal. To answer your question shortly: No, music is not only for the rich. I can speak from my own experience. It also comes down to financial management and even value system in some way. I do know quite a few collectors, who have a giant collection and a great audio system, some of them also being musicians, who are not rich by any means, even the opposite.
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Categories strain, crack and sometimes break, under their burden - step out of the space provided.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
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Points: 14256
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 12:41 |
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I'm not rich and I think Trump doesn't understand anything about music, so the answer is "no"
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20616
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 12:50 |
This guy said no. And probably would have laughed at this question.
Edited by SteveG - November 21 2016 at 12:53
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
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Points: 18487
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 13:28 |
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This is something I have thought about recently. Although I am college educated I am currently on disability and dirt poor. I have musical instruments but don't play them. As for the collection part that's hard for me because I don't have the extra money to buy a lot of music. I tend to listen to radio in the car(a lot of times not music though)or borrow cds from the library or listen to internet radio. Based on my experience I would say there are ways of getting around it. You can save your money or borrow cds from the library or buy them at the thrift stores(like I have). Also, places like wal mart and other stores often have cds for 5 dollars but most of that stuff isn't prog unfortunately.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 22:12 |
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Depends on what constitutes as 'rich' ??
I am far from being 'rich', yet I save hard to afford things I wish to achieve, be it overseas holidays, music (vinyls) and whatever else. Being single (dammit) and no kids (that I'm aware of, ha ha) helps. I guess I'm in the 'middle class'
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Magnum Vaeltaja
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Posted: November 21 2016 at 22:25 |
Certainly not. I'm firmly middle class my whole family is firmly involved in music, listening, collecting and playing.
As for people with lower incomes, it obviously isn't fiscally responsible to buy the latest SWilson remaster boxset every month, or flashy new effects pedals to mess around with, but I've known people who are far less fortunate than I am who have far more extensive collections of music, instruments and gadgetry, all while still getting by. Getting stuff secondhand and used can go a long way.
Also, buying prog digitally can save a lot of money in many cases. There are a fair number of classic/obscure prog albums available on iTunes for under $5, like Per Un Amico, Ys, Palepoli, and It'll All Work Out In Boomland.
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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
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Posted: November 22 2016 at 03:11 |
I'm from a middle-class background, and I'm the only one (with my dad and granddad) that has a music passion. None of us are musicians rather (though I tried bass, kb, flute & congas, but never persevered) I'd say that music collecting might not be for the poor (financially-speaking), but nowadays, with music dematerialization and pirating even the poor can collect punk and rap came from lesser neighbourorhood, and this hasn't quenched their music thirst - though it was probably more seen as a way out of the ghetto more than for "prog" or jazz musos
 octopus-4 wrote:
I'm not rich and I think Trump doesn't understand anything about music, so the answer is "no" |
He probably likes country & western stuff, with KKK-axed lyrics  
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surrogate people
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Joined: October 02 2013
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Posted: November 22 2016 at 03:46 |
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Absolutely not!. There are millions of poor musicians in the world. In many thirld world countries where people actually starve there are thrieving musical scenes. And that was even so before the internet. Many times they have to improvise their own instruments because they can`t afford to buy actual ones.
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Surrogate People they walk on by, they walk on by
When they replace you
They live your life, they live your life
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: November 22 2016 at 06:51 |
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Music will make you poor. That's an incontrovertible fact.
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What?
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chopper
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Joined: July 13 2005
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Posted: November 22 2016 at 07:23 |
Dean wrote:
Music will make you poor. That's an incontrovertible fact. |
That's true. Even without costing all the LPs and CDs I've bought over the years, there's my career as a semi-pro musician which has yet to bring in enough cash to trouble the tax man.
Edited by chopper - November 22 2016 at 07:23
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Manuel
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Joined: March 09 2007
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Posted: November 22 2016 at 20:36 |
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I've never been a rich man, but my CD collection is near 5000 at this point. I guess I prioritize music over other things, like magazines and stuff. Since I'm not a party animal, I don't spend much money outside from my needs, and my music collection. My guitar collection is still growing too.
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ginodi
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Posted: November 23 2016 at 07:27 |
I guess my family would have been considered poor. My parents divorced and it was rough...food stamps and all. I was still able to save up for cheap guitars by doing work around the neighborhood for people. Our first house party was when I was 17...one brother played bass (a cheap, no name model), and my other brother played drums...a cardboard box. I kid you not. I knew a kid in high school that came from a well-to-do family. He had a whole room filled with musical stuff, and as time would tell...he never really did anything other more than play in that room (he did a few local gigs). We (my brothers and I) kept going for it, and made a small run of it.
To be rich means you can afford to purchase all the name brand gear; to be poor means you have to use your head and get by with what you can...junk gear, used gear, etc. If you are bitten, no matter what station life places you, you will find ways to play what your soul wants to get out. Proud to say we never stole anything.
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Kingsnake
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Posted: November 23 2016 at 07:32 |
A lot of music is free. Streetmusicians, festivals, etc.
The only thing that bothers me is that classical music is so darn expensive. But in the Netherlands, rightwing politics cut back on cultural subsidizing. So no hope for the future, to make livemusic and a lot of entertainment accesible. I love that certain great musical styles; blues, jazz, hiphop, folk is mostly free. As for owning music; a lot of people are minimilizing, I sold and gave away all my cds and lps. I only stream, and that costs me 10 euros per month. Not really expensive.
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A_Flower
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Joined: April 18 2015
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Posted: November 23 2016 at 07:46 |
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I saw on a television program once, children in a lower-developed country in Africa created instruments out of recycled garbage, and had a teacher show them how to play. So no, as long as the rich are greatful to the poor
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User Banned for this Post
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The T
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Posted: November 23 2016 at 08:02 |
To play and listen to music is not just for the rich
To make money off of music is almost only for the rich.
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Warthur
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 06 2008
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 617
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 04:52 |
The T wrote:
To play and listen to music is not just for the rich
To make money off of music is almost only for the rich. |
This is a good example right here.
Thanks to the fact that we are entering an age where you don't have to be rich to have a decent internet connection and computing equipment (this still varies a lot from country to country, mind), and when artists use places like Bandcamp to showcase their work (and sometimes even give out albums on a pay-what-you-want basis), we're practically living in a golden age when it comes to wide access to new and archival music, and being able to get your music out there for people to appreciate.
But the narrow window when a variety of people had a shot of going from nowhere to become a super-rich ROCK STAR - which only really started up in the 1950s/1960s to begin with - seems to be closing. It is easy to forget that this time period was an anomaly, because it's taken up most of our lifetimes, but when you consider how short it is compared to the uncounted ages when people have been making music, it's clear that on a historical scale it's a bit of an oddity.
Moreover, if you want to actually make a living exclusively out of performing your own music (rather than, say, being a session musician), then you're looking at a very limited set of options:
1: Accept that you will be very poor. This is far and away the least stable option; it's hard, it grinds you down, and the question of "is this worth it?" will grow and more and more on you the more setbacks you face. One bad run of luck could make it impossible for you to keep going and still survive and force you to bite the bullet and get a day job. 2: Have a record contract, and make the compromises necessary to do that. Which does at least give you the support of a record label, but also involves all of the label input and pressure to go broad in your appeal rather than staying niche that comes with that. 3: Be independently wealthy enough to devote yourself to your art without worrying about paying the bills. I would say that this would qualify you as "rich" even if your lifestyle was pretty modest, simply because having enough money that you'd be OK even if you never got another paycheque again is a level of financial security most people will never attain.
So of the above options, number 1 is incredibly precarious, number 2 requires the blessing of a record company, and number 3 is simply going to be out of the reach of most people. So I would definitely say that being a full-time performer of your own material will in the long run require you to either be rich or require the patronage of the rich.
But the thing is, you don't have to go full-time. To take a non-prog example: look at Fenris from Darkthrone. He's the mastermind of one of the most infamous black metal bands, one which everyone in that particular musical scene wants to emulate. He works full-time in the Norwegian postal service, and when asked about that he gives a really compelling explanation of why he's never tried to give that up: he points out that if an artist or group becomes entirely dependent on the proceeds from their music sales for their livelihoods, then that commercial consideration ends up becoming a big constraint on their artistic expression, because they have to craft music with an eye to number of sales in order to eat. By having a day job to pay the bills, Fenris doesn't have to let such commercial considerations skew his art towards the mainstream, and he believes his work is better for it.
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Blacksword
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 05:08 |
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No.
I've got more CD's and vinyl than I can manage and I'm not wealthy at all. I earn quite good money, but it ALL goes..Every penny of it.
As for being rich to be a musician? No, there's been plenty of musicians who have started out without a pot to p!ss in and made a career out of music. I suppose if you want to be a prog rock musician these days, you're not going to be doing it for money anyway. You're doing it for the pleasure of doing it, which I guess should be the reason to make music anyway.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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micky
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Posted: November 24 2016 at 05:55 |
The T wrote:
To play and listen to music is not just for the rich
To make money off of music is almost only for the rich. |
 very well said. I can agree completely with that. Outside of rap and country lifting up the dregs of urban and rural America into the laps of luxury as a rule you don't get rich playing music anymore. The crash of the labels took care of that. Now any band can do albums ... record them.. and market them... but the downside is unless you are well off.. or the very 1%r's of music and are good enough to build a substantial fan base... don't give up the day job in ones dream of being a rock and roll star.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Is music only for the rich?
