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fudgenuts64 View Drop Down
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Points: 470 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fudgenuts64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2016 at 00:52
Re: to most everyone above me -

I always felt Azure d'Or got a bit of a bad reputation overall. I wasn't fond of it when I first got into the band but after playing the classic albums so much I gave it more of a chance. I felt the compositions were strong on the whole and really it was mostly more of A Song for All Seasons without the epics. I particularly love The Flood at Lyons and Jon's bass still dominates the record and has some of the catchiest lines in the Renaissance catalog (Jekyll and Hyde, The Winter Tree, Flood at Lyons...)

I will say Jon might personally be the most important member of the band for me in terms of influence on the grounds he made me appreciate the bass like nobody else before did. And I as well always liked his singing quite a lot.

I read once that after Jon left in 1985 there was some serious animosity towards him from Annie and Michael which would explain why he was the only member not present on Tuscany but things must have been better around the time a full reunion was planned in 2009 but never came to past. If I ever get the chance I'd like to ask Annie herself but I almost feel like it might be impolite, however, I can say I would really love to know what Jon is up to and if his work with Cathedrale will ever be released.

And to John Tout leaving - his sister passed away during the tour and hence why he left. From 1980 to the turn of the century he struggled with depression and the inability to play piano due to it having an incredible emotional bond to his sister actually. I can't remember off the top of my head how he finally came around but you should be able to find something on Google where he explains it in more detail. It's all rather sad honestly.

As for myself, I know they're playing in Buffalo later tonight and I'd love to be there but I can't quite make it out there right now. I do hope I'm able to catch them once before Annie calls it quits. Renaissance might not be the most important band of my formative years but certainly a hugely influential one that happens to still be existing in some form. I'll never forget the first time I learned the opening bit to Can You Understand on piano.
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Oh, Turn Of The Cards is THE ONE for me, things like Black Flame and Cold Is Being (yeah, there is beauty in melancholia).........have the power to move planets off their axis'..........
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Points: 8950 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2016 at 07:12
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Oh, Turn Of The Cards is THE ONE for me, things like Black Flame and Cold Is Being (yeah, there is beauty in melancholia).........have the power to move planets off their axis'..........

Side 2 of the original vinyl is IMO the strongest side of any Renaissance album
My favorite is "A Song for All Seasons", because of the way it flows together, everything culminating in the flourish at the end of the title track, as well as the crystalline production and liveliness.  It's also somehow optimistic without being cloying.   It wasn't always my favourite.   I remember being quite sick once after a generally difficult period, so I was emotionally fragile as well, and I listened to the entire SFAS album and immediately felt better.  From then on it became a very special album for me.
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by fudgenuts64 fudgenuts64 wrote:


I read once that after Jon left in 1985 there was some serious animosity towards him from Annie and Michael which would explain why he was the only member not present on Tuscany but things must have been better around the time a full reunion was planned in 2009 but never came to past. If I ever get the chance I'd like to ask Annie herself but I almost feel like it might be impolite, however, I can say I would really love to know what Jon is up to and if his work with Cathedrale will ever be released.

Ah, no, she will probably go wild if you do.  As for Jon Camp, has been doing sessions work.  Latest was Air & Numbers (The Lovely Intangibles) but it doesn't say which track:

http://thelovelyintangibles.bandcamp.com/album/air-numbers

Have browsed through his FB posts too, prying for any hints as to what actually transpired in 2009. Negative.

Originally posted by fudgenuts64 fudgenuts64 wrote:

And to John Tout leaving - his sister passed away during the tour and hence why he left. From 1980 to the turn of the century he struggled with depression and the inability to play piano due to it having an incredible emotional bond to his sister actually. I can't remember off the top of my head how he finally came around but you should be able to find something on Google where he explains it in more detail. It's all rather sad honestly.

I think you are talking about the interview John Tout gave to one David Owen in 1998?  I have read it before.  The thing is, it would have been simple enough for the band to just tell everyone that Tout wanted a hiatus from the band because of this situation and they were letting him go.  That was not the official version; hence my suspicion that there's more to it than meets the eye.  For one thing, Sullivan may have got back somewhere in the 80s (especially after they lost Harrison too), but he didn't either.  Heck, sticking only to official versions, there is no reason Jon Camp wouldn't have made it back to the band at the time of Tuscany itself.  Neither he wants to talk about what really happened nor did Michael Dunford when he was alive.  Annie said flat out that she doesn't get along with him anymore, to the extent that "we'd probably kill each other".  Typical Annie hyperbole, that, but what happened that there is so much friction between the two is not known to us or rather anybody who hasn't managed to pry it out from either through personal/fb interactions.  Camp is just being polite in making it out as if he has no issues at all and I absolutely respect that but it's not the truth and the truth is probably never going to come out.
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Points: 7951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2016 at 07:23
Speaking of `Tuscany', what is everyone's opinion on it? I just noticed it on my CD shelf earlier tonight and realised I haven't played it in years (probably since it came out)...I'm sure it was a very respectable album from them?
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Speaking of `Tuscany', what is everyone's opinion on it? I just noticed it on my CD shelf earlier tonight and realised I haven't played it in years (probably since it came out)...I'm sure it was a very respectable album from them?

Not my cuppa.  I'd prefer Grandine Il Vento to it and I don't like that one very much either, so... In Tuscany, they really lacked the confidence to go prog.  I don't completely blame them but it all amounted to a middling album. 
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Points: 8950 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2016 at 07:28
I wasn't wild on Tuscany, but I suppose I should give it another chance.  I thought "Dear Landseer" was really good, along with a couple of others.  But honestly I preferred "The Other Woman" because it doesn't sound like Renaissance and doesn't try to.  Well except for the superb "Somewhere west of here".  And Grandine Il Vento is better than both though still not great.  Hearing several of the tracks done so well live, and not seeming out of place amongst the 1970s epics, has helped my view

Edited by kenethlevine - November 08 2016 at 07:29
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

I wasn't wild on Tuscany, but I suppose I should give it another chance.  I thought "Dear Landseer" was really good, along with a couple of others.  But honestly I preferred "The Other Woman" because it doesn't sound like Renaissance and doesn't try to.  Well except for the superb "Somewhere west of here".  And Grandine Il Vento is better than both though still not great.  Hearing several of the tracks done so well live, and not seeming out of place amongst the 1970s epics, has helped my view
 
Yeah the three long tracks do sound better live.
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Get Live at Albert Hall if you can find it.  It is or at least was available as a download on concert vault. Ocean Gypsy is the only classic that the Albert Hall discs are missing and then the Carnegie Hall performance of that track isn't particularly amazing. If you caught them at Portugal last year, you probably heard a better performance right there. 

George Starostin's website had said that Tout was simply frustrated with the direction taken by the band and walked off stage in the middle of a performance just like that to register his protest. He quit more than the band firing him and Sullivan joined him.  I wonder if Annie regrets not joining them in the rebellion for then Dunford and Camp would have been forced to listen to them.  She has professed to not enjoying the albums from AZD onwards and it's not a matter of her say so, she couldn't really own these songs live the way she had done with previous albums. 
I only heard of it. I'll be sure to get it if I find it. Yeah, the most moving part of the concert Cry

That's indeed serious. I remember she said at the concert something like "we lost our way back in the 80's, I must have been high" LOL
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Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

That's indeed serious. I remember she said at the concert something like "we lost our way back in the 80's, I must have been high" LOL

LOL
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Points: 8950 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2016 at 09:17
while I don't argue that they lost their way in the 80s, I think they were doomed no matter what they did, stay the course or go pop.  I actually think Camera Camera was a good album for its time, and Time Line had its moments too.  But "Songs from Renaissance Days" showed that they weren't up to much after they lost their record deal.
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Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

There's plenty wrong with Jon's `Only Angels Have Wings'!
Oh, yeah? I wish the rest of that album was as good as 'Wings.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

There's plenty wrong with Jon's `Only Angels Have Wings'!
Oh, yeah? I wish the rest of that album was as good as 'Wings.

LOL

At the time the album came out I thought it was one of the better tracks, like maybe 4th or 5th out of 10.  I haven't listened to it in a long time but it strikes me as a bit too synthetic, which was a problem I had with most of the album.  
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^You're probably right.
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Points: 8950 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:14
Here's a question that Rogerthat may have an answer to.  Are there any Steven Wilson styled remasters planned for the classic period Renaissance albums?  Any bonus tracks in the vaults?  Obviously, we have all the live versions we will ever need, but if there were some unreleased studio tracks, that could be a treat
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Here's a question that Rogerthat may have an answer to.  Are there any Steven Wilson styled remasters planned for the classic period Renaissance albums?  Any bonus tracks in the vaults?  Obviously, we have all the live versions we will ever need, but if there were some unreleased studio tracks, that could be a treat

In I think 2009 or 10, they issued a remaster of Scheherazade along with the Azure D Or promo videos (including an unplugged version of Carpet of the Sun that's, unusually, played a half step lower). Since then, there's been nothing nor has Annie hinted at any remasters in the works.  She has mentioned a new studio album in a recent interview but nothing concrete yet.  
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Points: 8950 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 08:27
yeah it seems like they were more the perfectionists, taking the material they had and working it till they were satisfied, rather than going by volume and then choosing the best cuts
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

yeah it seems like they were more the perfectionists, taking the material they had and working it till they were satisfied, rather than going by volume and then choosing the best cuts

Yup and also spent a lot of time touring which may have also left too little time to actually write more songs than required.  Dunford in any case was more of a meticulous craftsman, enlisting the help of Camp and Tout in particular to improve upon his compositions and not a prodigal songwriting virtuoso like a Donald Fagen who could go on churning songs with his knowledge of blues and jazz. 
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Points: 8950 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 10:48
good point about the touring.
Dunford did a lot of research too I think, and had a lot of influences among the composers.  It's perhaps a bit harder to spot his influences from the pop world
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Points: 8950 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 10:52
this came up on my facebook due to my association with Renaissance, a decent cover of "Opening Out"
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