American Politics the 2016 edition

pt2. on HRC

Hillary at her heart is a flaming liberal but through necessity and reality.. the 80's and 90's were not a kind time for liberals as any who were around then would agree. She fell in with her husbands brand of a more centrist Democratic Party. However Hillary will likely be the last we see of the Clinton-Gore-Kerry-Obama centrist Democratic party. The left is becoming ascendant in the Democratic party.. and the Reagan revolution is dead and buried.. we are at the threshold of a left leaning socio-economic movement .. what I will prematurely call the Warren Revolution.. if the Republicans hate Hillary.. hold tight ye yokels... just wait till 2024 when perhaps after losing 2020 you finally get it through your thick heads you aren't winning another election till you move left.. for that is exactly where the wind is blowing in this country both socially.. and economically.

That is one reason I didn't support ..wasn't feeling the Bern.. he was ahead of his time.  I think the country needs 8 years of a more measured moderate leadership.. to try to put some of its substantial social ills on the road to recovery.  Then ..  the Warren-Sanders faction will be waiting in the wings to deal with the economic ills and the vast economic inequalities in this country.

Anyhow my thoughts on HRC.

micky wrote: can't wait for the 'Apprentice' outtakes to surface....  said (by the show's producer) to be even worse than the ET tapes.  I've heard it asked whey none of this surfaced earlier? What a stupid question.... why make it known in June when you can in October.   It isn't like anyone (looking at you .. indignant GOP leaders... support but not endorse.. what bullsh*t that was) was surprised by the content.. yet they supported him.   It was the ultimate firewall against the disaster that would have been a Trump Presidency.... as I said... Hillary's skeletons were laid bare..  we had hardly touched the mansion full of them in Trumps.   so over/under on Hillary's E.C total. She is setting around 350 now.. does she break 400. It isn't like Republicans are suddenly going to vote for HIllary.. and one could only dream of them voting Libertarian.. one could only hope they were that stupid for they best realize the Libertarian Party is what could replace the Republican Party as our 2nd major party.   what the fear is.. and a VERY justified one..  is those voters stay home.  The House is now in play... that is why they are running from Trump as they are.

how cool.. just got a knock on the door and had a great chat with a young lady (pretty cute too ) who was volunteering with the Clinton campaign .  Signed me up to help get people to the voting booths on election day.  Great to see the Democratic machine in action....


Edited by micky - October 09 2016 at 12:00

Micky wrote: That is one reason I didn't support ..wasn't feeling the Bern.. he was ahead of his time. I think the country needs 8 years of a more measured moderate leadership.. to try to put some of its substantial social ills on the road to recovery. Then .. the Warren-Sanders faction will be waiting in the wings to deal with the economic ills and the vast economic inequalities in this country.

All of the rest of the HRC stuff was good. I think you're way off on this. We can't have 8 more years of Obama status quo on healthcare. It's a disaster not because it is too socialist. It
Is not. It is too capitalistic. Gobs of people still uninsured, and we have put a Democratic stamp on a system where middle men drive up prices. Her first healthcare proposal in the 90s was conceptually very similar to Obamacare, she was then directly responsible for shoving single-payer off the table, supported a private sector solution in her own run just a few years ago, and now she still supports what is basically a Republican approach to healcare in her support of Obamacare. This is what happens when things get "measured". Single payer/Medicare for everyone is not a new idea, but it's never been allowed on the table. If people weren't ready for it (hypothetically speaking, I'm not really willing to concede that), they could have at least scared the opposition with it and gotten a public option. The reason liberals had a hard time in the 80s and 90s is because is because Democrats ran scared. They dismissed leftward ideas in order to "get it right" out of the box, although legislation never comes right out of the box. As a result, THEY moved politics rightward by their gross negligence in not championing liberal ideas. I want Teddy Roosevelt/Bernie Sanders and I want him now! But if, like Al Gore, Hillary turns out to be a secret fan of a single-payer system, I'll call it good.

Ugh. Tired and cranky rant.



Edited by HackettFan - October 10 2016 at 17:02

HackettFan wrote: Micky wrote: That is one reason I didn't support ..wasn't feeling the Bern.. he was ahead of his time. I think the country needs 8 years of a more measured moderate leadership.. to try to put some of its substantial social ills on the road to recovery. Then .. the Warren-Sanders faction will be waiting in the wings to deal with the economic ills and the vast economic inequalities in this country. All of the rest of the HRC stuff was good. I think you're way off on this. We can't have 8 more years of Obama status quo on healthcare. It's a disaster not because it is too socialist. It Is not. It is too capitalistic. Gobs of people still uninsured, and we have put a Democratic stamp on a system where middle men drive up prices. Her first healthcare proposal in the 90s was conceptually very similar to Obamacare, she was then directly responsible for shoving single-payer off the table, supported a private sector solution in her own run just a few years ago, and now she still supports what is basically a Republican approach to healcare in her support of Obamacare. This is what happens when things get "measured". Single payer/Medicare for everyone is not a new idea, but it's never been allowed on the table. If people weren't ready for it (hypothetically speaking, I'm not really willing to concede that), they could have at least scared the opposition with it and gotten a public option. The reason liberals had a hard time in the 80s and 90s is because is because Democrats ran scared. They dismissed leftward ideas in order to "get it right" out of the box, although legislation never comes right out of the box. As a result, THEY moved politics rightward by their gross negligence in not championing liberal ideas. I want Teddy Roosevelt/Bernie Sanders and I want him now! But if, like Al Gore, Hillary turns out to be a secret fan of a single-payer system, I'll call it good.

I think all agree it was  failed first step. Hilary knows it.. hell even Trump does. We all do but was a necessary first step from .. nothingness.  I think Hillary has the right idea.. and explained very well last night why you can't scrap it.  It can be made better and she'll need to work on that.  How she'll do it? I'll be curious to see. 

Scraping it .. repealing it is not a realistic option. Sure it makes a great yokel rallying cry but like much of the sh*t Trump and the GOP spew.. it doesn't jive with reality man. National healthcare is here and is about goddamned time.. welcome the 20th century America. We just need to twerk it to get it right perhaps. I at least am happy to see a realization that lack of affordable healthcare is one of the countries most pressing problems.

While Trump seems to think it can be scrapped, it is good to see that many Republican leaders have quietly taken 'repealing Obamacare' out of the playbook of GOP scare tactics. Like or not it is here... what are they going to do.. take the insurance away from millions. Impossible....

5 Mick takeaways from last nights... SHOW...

1) the first 30 minutes were something you didn't want to miss...that was historic in its own sick way... yet at the same time something you NEVER see again. And we wonder why so many are turned off by politics. I'll refrain from blaming Trump from dragging this into the mud.. .what did we expect.. why did we tune it.. we knew it was going to happen. It really was good entertainment and I killed my 90 minute allotment of debate beer in the first 20 minutes.

2) the next 60 minutes...  I won't say I was impressed by Trump.. but will say I fully expected him to be unprepeared for not having prepped. He surprised me.  HE did a much better job at this one.. at selling himself to those that already love him.. or hate Hillary.  Doubt many undecided were swayed to him.. and suppose the obvious aggressiveness and lack of respect shown will turn off more undecided to him than convert them to him. No surpise Ryan dumped him today.  He never has grasped he is a in Presidential campgin.. not a GOP primary.  believe it not man.. there are those.. a graet many that don't hate HIllary or see her as the Devil. He likely did a good job doing the only thing he probably was capable of doing.. slapping a bandaid on the gut shot campaign of his.

3)  Favorite moment was the whole Syrian segment...  what what YOU do Donald.. she didn't ask for a critque of Obama's policies.  Then again.. just spotlighted the real problem with him, and the GOP, always against.. but no ideas of their own. 

4)  Hillaries response and obvious connection with that black gentleman.  I saw that smile he gave her and I told myself.. that is the difference .. the real stark difference between the two candidates.. and their parties. 
Rage ... versus hope.

5) yeah man... I WANT a red sweater. Not surprised to get home and find the dude rocked the twitter verse.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/who-is-ken-bone-229542

f**k it.. make it 6 for this really stood out.

6) for the first and only time this year..  Trump actually appeared.. human.  Touching last question and answer.  First and perhaps sincerely positive moment of his whole trainwreck of a campaign.


overall...  saw this last night posted by someone.. and think it summed last night up.

Hillary didn't wholly win that debate. Just the election.

#nevertrump

^Do not forget her tacit approval of a coup in Honduras that led to skyrocketing femicide rates. Feminist my rear end.

JJLehto wrote: Well, sad it took this long, and frankly I'm not sure why all of Trump's horrid comments previously weren't enough to convince people BUT seems finally sanity is coming back.  The Republican Party seems to basically be abandoning Trump entirely...which honestly makes sense. They can take the loss. They'll keep obstructing Congress and giving Clinton a fit over every time she blinks, much like they've done for the last 6 years. They can start focusing on 2020, where several people are already positioning themselves.  Scott Walker will deff be an early favorite. So we can be reminded that the Republican mainstream...is still absolutely insane.

rogerthat wrote: JJLehto wrote: Well, sad it took this long, and frankly I'm not sure why all of Trump's horrid comments previously weren't enough to convince people BUT seems finally sanity is coming back.  The Republican Party seems to basically be abandoning Trump entirely...which honestly makes sense. They can take the loss. They'll keep obstructing Congress and giving Clinton a fit over every time she blinks, much like they've done for the last 6 years. They can start focusing on 2020, where several people are already positioning themselves.  Scott Walker will deff be an early favorite. So we can be reminded that the Republican mainstream...is still absolutely insane.  In fact, in an article published soon after Trump's lewd comments (which at least were made in private and when he was NOT a politician) they cited things said by Republican candidates and it was probably more sexist than what Trump said. Kasich apparently said that he won in 1978 because women got out of their kitchens to vote for him.  There's Carson saying the war is over what's inside women in this country, not a war over women.  So, yeah, getting rid of Trump will totally solve their problems.  Why did they let things come to such a pass in the first place?