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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 00:12
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

What really bothers me was Giullani's ridiculous enthusiasm; here's a smart, humane person who got his city through the worst period in its history and he's describes Trump's campaign as "greatness".

Wow.   Speechless.



I think he's a bit of an a****le, won't deny his smarts and of course he was the mayor of the city worst hit by the attacks, but still I think this isn't exactly new. 
Seriously, this may not be known outside the NY area (hell it doesn't seem too known even there) but the police force under him was widely accused of racism, civil liberty abuses and aggressive tactics, including shooting unarmed people. He once defended one of these actions by releasing the sealed juvenile record of the slain person http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/probe-okd-rudy-release-juvenile-file-article-1.893570

In this Intercept article, they cite an interview with Giuliani where he said he was "the mayor who put police officers in Mosques" That "we did it for the eight years I was mayor" Perhaps just a Trump-ian lie for hardcore points, but even if made up...this is something he said. It also notes after 9/11 the NYPD DID engage in spying of mosques within a 100 mile radius of NYC http://theintercept.com/2016/07/20/rudy-giuliani-brags-about-treating-all-muslims-like-criminal-suspects/

Like Trump, Giuliani was always a moderate/socially liberal Republican so he has taken a page from the Trump book and hyped up the fear mongering and racism to cover that up, but I am just not so sure this side of Giuliani wasn't always there. 
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 00:34
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

So you guys think it hasn't already been decided that Shillary wins?
Not if people refuse to get off their bums and vote for her! Then it's hello Trumpsville! Confused

Though I still say if this happens, the Democrats can only blame themselves. 

Adding to the (lack of) enthusiasm wave that is Clinton, it seems her VP list is down to Tim Kaine and Tom Vilsack. 
Both very Clinton-esque picks: safe, boring, moderate and allies... Vilsack I know who he is, but I sincerely don't know a thing about him! This is ridiculous. 
She should pick Tom Perez, he's safe, an insider but has liberal credentials. 
Or, if she is willing to pull a Democrat from the Senate...why not go Chris Murphy from CT? That seat is basically a guaranteed Dem pick up if he was to leave it, and he's a staunch liberal who's now famous for his 15 hour filibuster on guns...the current hot button. Why not him??

But nah, let's pick Kaine or VilsackLOL
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Points: 65435 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 00:40
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

What really bothers me was Giullani's ridiculous enthusiasm; here's a smart, humane person who got his city through the worst period in its history and he's describes Trump's campaign as "greatness".
I think he's a bit of an a****le, won't deny his smarts and of course he was the mayor of the city worst hit by the attacks, but still I think this isn't exactly new. 
Seriously, this may not be known outside the NY area (hell it doesn't seem too known even there) but the police force under him was widely accused of racism, civil liberty abuses and aggressive tactics, including shooting unarmed people. He once defended one of these actions by releasing the sealed juvenile record of the slain person.

In this Intercept article, they cite an interview with Giuliani where he said he was "the mayor who put police officers in Mosques" That "we did it for the eight years I was mayor" Perhaps just a Trump-ian lie for hardcore points, but even if made up...this is something he said. It also notes after 9/11 the NYPD DID engage in spying of mosques within a 100 mile radius of NYC

I don't mind police in mosques; if I were a New Yorker in 2001 I'd probably have expected it, if only for general security for both native New Yorkers and non-criminal Muslims.   Domestic spying after a terror attack?-- yeah, you better believe it. 

What bothers me about Giuliani is his putting of Party politics over anything else.   But that's why I hate politics; it cripples the independent mind.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 04:18
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

So you guys think it hasn't already been decided that Shillary wins?
Not if people refuse to get off their bums and vote for her! Then it's hello Trumpsville! Confused
I mean haven't the voting machines already been rigged to make sure that she wins? The same happened with Bush and nobody seems to care. I don't like Trump either, but let's not pretend that he even has a chance at being elected, no matter how many votes he gets.
This is dangerous thinking. Does anyone here really think that Trump would have been the Republican candidate just one year ago?
 
Democrats are just as disgusted with the whole political process as are Republicans. The difference being that Trump is not the old status quo and Hillary is. Dems may just stay home, resigned to having someone in DC that offers more of the same for the next four years.
 
Republicans are delusional enough to think that Trump is a radical change and actually vote for him after not having voting in ages, if at all. Only the most naïve would think that this particular election will end with the same old outcome, without Dems exercising some diligence.


Edited by SteveG - July 21 2016 at 04:25
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Points: 15309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 07:21
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

So you guys think it hasn't already been decided that Shillary wins?
Not if people refuse to get off their bums and vote for her! Then it's hello Trumpsville! Confused
I mean haven't the voting machines already been rigged to make sure that she wins? The same happened with Bush and nobody seems to care. I don't like Trump either, but let's not pretend that he even has a chance at being elected, no matter how many votes he gets.
This is dangerous thinking. Does anyone here really think that Trump would have been the Republican candidate just one year ago?

I understand why  you think it's dangerous thinking but it is based on the real situation that plagues our electoral system. There are many things stacked against the democratic process including gerry mandering, polling stations suddenly closing for no reason and voters being wiped off of the list if they share the same name as someone else. You should really check out Greg Palast and his stellar investigative research into these problems and shines a light on all the flaws both intentinal and un- that does help rig the elections. Personally at this point i feel they can steal the election when it's close but not totally rig the entire country so it is quite imperitive that we turn out to cast our votes in droves. The electoral college system that  we employ also has the power to simply ignore what the voters choose. Our system needs change, for sure.
 

Democrats are just as disgusted with the whole political process as are Republicans. The difference being that Trump is not the old status quo and Hillary is. Dems may just stay home, resigned to having someone in DC that offers more of the same for the next four years.

It's difficult to make generalizations like these. The Dems as well as Repubs have different factions within them. The Dems have a very left wing strain that supported Sanders but they have more than their share of hawkish Wall Street worshippers who are Repub light. In fact many are supporting Shillary.

Republicans are delusional enough to think that Trump is a radical change and actually vote for him after not having voting in ages, if at all. Only the most naïve would think that this particular election will end with the same old outcome, without Dems exercising some diligence.

Most Repubs do not like Trump and didn't want him as their nominee. They see him as a loose wire whose mouth utters the subterfuge antics they have employed over the decades. Although Trump is towing the line in some ways they still fear his over-the-top opinions and stances against trade deals like the TTP as well as others. You have it right that this election will be the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning. I've heard it called the last election of the 20th century. Definately a wild ride
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 07:37
^ Word.
 
Sent from my iphone.
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LearsFool View Drop Down
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Points: 8642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 10:51
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

What really bothers me was Giullani's ridiculous enthusiasm; here's a smart, humane person who got his city through the worst period in its history and he's describes Trump's campaign as "greatness".

Wow.   Speechless.



I think he's a bit of an a****le, won't deny his smarts and of course he was the mayor of the city worst hit by the attacks, but still I think this isn't exactly new. 
Seriously, this may not be known outside the NY area (hell it doesn't seem too known even there) but the police force under him was widely accused of racism, civil liberty abuses and aggressive tactics, including shooting unarmed people. He once defended one of these actions by releasing the sealed juvenile record of the slain person http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/probe-okd-rudy-release-juvenile-file-article-1.893570

In this Intercept article, they cite an interview with Giuliani where he said he was "the mayor who put police officers in Mosques" That "we did it for the eight years I was mayor" Perhaps just a Trump-ian lie for hardcore points, but even if made up...this is something he said. It also notes after 9/11 the NYPD DID engage in spying of mosques within a 100 mile radius of NYC http://theintercept.com/2016/07/20/rudy-giuliani-brags-about-treating-all-muslims-like-criminal-suspects/

Like Trump, Giuliani was always a moderate/socially liberal Republican so he has taken a page from the Trump book and hyped up the fear mongering and racism to cover that up, but I am just not so sure this side of Giuliani wasn't always there. 

Here's a big one for the pile:

Calling Giuliani "smart, humane" is giving him WAY too much credit. He's always been a freedom violating bigot of the highest order. There's nothing shocking about his recent actions.
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 12:16
^Giuliani deserves kudos for his actions after the attack on NYC on 9/11. Unfortunately, his attachment to the douche party has done much to undo his brief shinning moment in history.
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 13:06
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:



It's difficult to make generalizations like these. The Dems as well as Repubs have different factions within them. The Dems have a very left wing strain that supported Sanders but they have more than their share of hawkish Wall Street worshippers who are Repub light. In fact many are supporting Shillary.

Amazingly, I don't have the time these days to chew the political fat, but I did want to follow up this one point in your post. I move in very left wing circles, so after the demise of Bernie, most of my "lefty" friends do not want to vote at all, if they haven't jumped off any highrises yet, like in the days of the Great Depression.

However, beside this minority, I do know centrist Democrats that don't feel like voting either. They have no "outsider" to vote for. The Repubs do, and its this situation that I find to be most dangerous.

So, be afraid. Be very afraid. Shocked LOL


Edited by SteveG - July 21 2016 at 13:09
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Points: 15309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 14:23
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:



<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" color="#006600">It's difficult to make generalizations like these. The Dems as well as Repubs have different factions within them. The Dems have a very left wing strain that supported Sanders but they have more than their share of hawkish Wall Street worshippers who are Repub light. In fact many are supporting Shillary.


Amazingly, I don't have the time these days to chew the political fat, but I did want to follow up this one point in your post. I move in very left wing circles, so after the demise of Bernie, most of my "lefty" friends do not want to vote at all, if they haven't jumped off any highrises yet, like in the days of the Great Depression.

However, beside this minority, I do know centrist Democrats that don't feel like voting either. They have no "outsider" to vote for. The Repubs do, and its this situation that I find to be most dangerous.

So, be afraid. Be very afraid. Shocked LOL





Yeah I know. It really boils down to the lesser of evils once again. The reason to turn out to vote should be for the supreme Court nominees if nothing else. Berne created a movement for the future that we must nurture so someone like him really can win in the future. It all takes too frigging long, I know
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Points: 13110 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 16:20
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Yeah I know. It really boils down to the lesser of evils once again. The reason to turn out to vote should be for the supreme Court nominees if nothing else. Berne created a movement for the future that we must nurture so someone like him really can win in the future. It all takes too frigging long, I know
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Points: 65760 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 16:22
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:



It's difficult to make generalizations like these. The Dems as well as Repubs have different factions within them. The Dems have a very left wing strain that supported Sanders but they have more than their share of hawkish Wall Street worshippers who are Repub light. In fact many are supporting Shillary.

Amazingly, I don't have the time these days to chew the political fat, but I did want to follow up this one point in your post. I move in very left wing circles, so after the demise of Bernie, most of my "lefty" friends do not want to vote at all, if they haven't jumped off any highrises yet, like in the days of the Great Depression.

However, beside this minority, I do know centrist Democrats that don't feel like voting either. They have no "outsider" to vote for. The Repubs do, and its this situation that I find to be most dangerous.

So, be afraid. Be very afraid. Shocked LOL

All the far left people I talk to don't think much of Bernie tbh.
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 16:44
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:





someone frame that post.....Clap
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 19:48
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:





someone frame that post.....Clap
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Points: 15309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 20:25
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Yeah I know. It really boils down to the lesser of evils once again. The reason to turn out to vote should be for the supreme Court nominees if nothing else. Berne created a movement for the future that we must nurture so someone like him really can win in the future. It all takes too frigging long, I know



Maybe. We don't know what's gonna happen. We are at a crossroads in history hitherto never experienced. We can HOPE that Clinton will come through on these issues but we have entered a time when corporations have more power than nations, Wall Street has a stranglehold on the political process and law enforcement feels free to kill with impugnity. Everyone should remember that the Constitution DOES NOT guarantee the right to vote. Voting is a priveledge. Yes, there are cases that say this and say that but it simply means that if we are allowed to vote then it must be applied accross the board. The fact is there is no true democracy and it is allowed to proceed as usual only to pacify the uneducated public in thinking that they have a true voice in the developments of the nation and by default planet. I think the Supreme Court simply ignoring the vote in 2000 spelled that all out. I still say vote because they have to at least keep the illusion going but my hopes are set to simmer as they will never allow anything to happen that is against their hegemonic interests
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Points: 15309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 20:40
BTW Clinton has been for the TPP and trade agreements which outsource jobs, Trump hasn't. Trump is actually to the left in some ways but it really doesn't matter because they can say anything to get elected and then not follow through. Obama promised to close Gitmo but it hasn't happened. I have dipped into the wells of knowledge on a very deep level and according to sources, the president is 35th in line under a much larger hierarchical chain of comman that remains invisible to public eyes. Whistleblowers have been coming out talking all the caca about the true nature of power and the Obama admin has been responsible for prosecuting more whistleblowers for exposing government crimes than ALL other admins combined. In the end there are checks and balances not simply within the bureaucratic government but in nature in general, so i don't think we need to assume that if Trump wins that the world will fall. That is the classic Jedi mindtrick that farms the fear to fuel the dementors of doom, for they truly survive on it
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http://thefreethoughtproject.com/politicians-puppets-political-theater/
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The Coronation of Napoleon I, Emperor of The French RNC 2016, Day Four

Before the big one, there's not much to say beyond Peter Thiel being the first open gay man to speak before the RNC for sixteen years. Another outsider who sought a Sisyphean goal, here trying to get the Repubs to end the anti-LGBT culture war.

Trump's speech leaked hours early. I read it hours early, and followed the actual speech to compare the two. Just read it from the teleprompters as he interjected some repetition and pleas to "Believe me!". And if somebody has to beg your trust like that, they're full of sh*t.

He opened a lot like Marcus Antonius at Caesar's funeral. I was surprised when his Hillary berating didn't lead to repeated interjections of "... but Hillary is an honourable woman!".

So lots of malarkey, bad statistics, claims of speed, and no concrete ideas whatsoever. So little to say! Same garbage we've been getting for about a year! Why did I even bother? Well, now you know, and as GI Joe always said, that's half the battle.

Cue balloons.
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Points: 15309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 21:57
Originally posted by LearsFool LearsFool wrote:

The Coronation of Napoleon I, Emperor of The French RNC 2016, Day Four

Before the big one, there's not much to say beyond Peter Thiel being the first open gay man to speak before the RNC for sixteen years. Another outsider who sought a Sisyphean goal, here trying to get the Repubs to end the anti-LGBT culture war.

Trump's speech leaked hours early. I read it hours early, and followed the actual speech to compare the two. Just read it from the teleprompters as he interjected some repetition and pleas to "Believe me!". And if somebody has to beg your trust like that, they're full of sh*t.

He opened a lot like Marcus Antonius at Caesar's funeral. I was surprised when his Hillary berating didn't lead to repeated interjections of "... but Hillary is an honourable woman!".

So lots of malarkey, bad statistics, claims of speed, and no concrete ideas whatsoever. So little to say! Same garbage we've been getting for about a year! Why did I even bother? Well, now you know, and as GI Joe always said, that's half the battle.

Cue balloons.


At least the public can pee on his Hollywood star!!!! Why TF does he have a star in the first place?
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Points: 8642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2016 at 22:02
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

At least the public can pee on his Hollywood star!!!! Why TF does he have a star in the first place?

People like reality TV. And he of course has two reality TV franchises: The Apprentice and The Donald Trump Presidential Campaign 2016.
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