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Atavachron 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65435 |
 Posted: July 20 2016 at 01:08 |
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No, Obama is the best we can do. Unfortunately he's a rarity and US politics hasn't been regularly attracting quality people since the Kennedys. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 01:18 |
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1) agreed, 2) evidently, although I always thought that Jimmy Carter did quite a good job.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65435 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 01:30 |
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Carter's intentions were good but he was naive, and he came in at a bad time with the Reagan/Bush years around the corner. Good job? He didn't start any wars, I'll give him that.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 04:23 |
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I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "Everyone sucks in 2016!", at first I laughed, but then it hit me.
Is someone like this even going to bother to vote?
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: October 22 2005 Location: elsewhere Status: Offline Points: 67421 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 04:52 |
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So you guys think it hasn't already been decided that Shillary wins?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 05:53 |
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I'd never knowingly underestimate you or presume to patronise, that was never my intent.  My personal interest here is I have been a life-long third party voter so would dearly love to see a change to PR so I can feel in some way better represented in government. The point I was making (well, one of the several), was Presidential elections have to be winner takes all because you can't have a shared presidency. Having more viable candidates on the ballot that people are prepared to vote for in large numbers just redistributes votes away from the two main parties but results in the eventual winner still coming from one of those two. It takes a dramatic change in the voter-demographic for any third (fourth or fifth) party to usurp one of the two major parties, disaffection and disenfranchisement generally isn't enough. The question then boils down to which of the two main parties are the third and fourth party candidates taking votes from as this affects the final outcome - a right-wing third candidate taking votes away from Trump will hand the election to Clinton and a left-wing third candidate will give the election to Trump. A three-way fight between Trump, Clinton and Sanders would lead to a very predictable result which, to give Sanders the credit he's due, is why he threw in behind Clinton and didn't take up the Green ticket. Add a fourth and fifth candidate into the mix then which of the two main parties wins become harder to predict, but it will not result in the president coming from one of the other parties. The fly in the ointment today is Johnson, who potentially can take votes from both sides depending on how the voters perceive him: a fiscal conservative or a social liberal; I suspect he will continue to poll well with floating voters up until election day, then lose out to tactical voting (voting for the lesser of two evils?). This doesn't change under any known PR voting system - Johnson would poll the lowest of the three so would be eliminated and his voters would then have to choose between Trump or Clinton (either by second ballot or by 2nd preference vote transferred from the first ballot).
I've mentioned two others: Libertarian and Green. Whether either of them are viable alternatives in the USA remains to be seen however they tend to be more popular with younger voters (Anti-authoritarianism and Environmentalism are predominantly youth-friendly ideologies  ) so it's worth noting that Millennials make up 30% of the US voter demographic and according to some analysts now outnumber Baby Boomers.
Balanced coalitions are rare and often the weaker partner will subsequently be punished for the excesses of the stronger side in the coalition by their own supporters or for being a hindrance by their partners' supporters.
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What?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 07:31 |
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Last night, it was laughable/scary/sad to see the entire floor of the convention repeating "in god we trust" after Ben Carson asked them several times "what's in every US bill?" "What's in every US coin?" And then he finally brought the subject of LUCIFER... LUCIFER... in 2016. "hey're with Lucifer, we're with God", paraphrasing.
I repeat what I said before, using Trump's famous phrase: those supporting Trump are lunatics, racists, religious freaks, they're rabid, and some, I assume, are (by the way I just watched a 10% of the convention, no sane person can stomach more than that).
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 36500 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 11:40 |
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"The secular progressive agenda is antithetical to the principles of the founding of this nation" (Ben Carson). Carson, as well as a lot of evangelical Republicans, don't seem to know the history of their country or know much about the founding fathers. The US was intended to be a secular state. "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" (John Adams). "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" (the First Amendment of the Constitution). "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding...." (Thomas Jefferson). And "In God We trust" has not been continuously used on currency. Edited by Logan - July 20 2016 at 11:41 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 12:02 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: October 22 2005 Location: elsewhere Status: Offline Points: 67421 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 12:16 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 12:35 |
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: October 22 2005 Location: elsewhere Status: Offline Points: 67421 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 12:36 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 12:42 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 36500 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 12:54 |
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I do think that Trump may be elected, though I don't expect it -- Hillary is definitely the odd-on favourite. I am aware of the allegations that Hillary Clinton supporters rigged the primaries to ensure her nomination. Republican officials tried ploys to make a primaries Trump win less likely. As for Bush Jr., well I think that was quite different, but her supporters could swing states in a Florida like manner. I don't expect a fair electoral process, but that doesn't mean that I think that the machine has been rigged to ensure a Clinton win. Incidentally, regarding some earlier discussion, I think that a system of preferential voting should be brought in similar to Australia so that any third candidate that loses could transfer their votes to the candidate of his/her choice (though that should be stated and upheld before the election -- ideally come campaigning time). |
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: November 09 2014 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 8642 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 13:15 |
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Turns out that Pence has hired a one Nick Ayers to be a top aide, one who now is in deep with the Trump campaign. This is an egotistical brat who loves using dark money and illegal coordination to crush his employers' opponents.
Watch out for snakes. Also, here's how Trump plans to "run" the country.
Edited by LearsFool - July 20 2016 at 14:52 |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65435 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 18:01 |
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I just like saying "Reince Priebus" .
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 20:45 |
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I had a reince priebus once but I had it removed. Thanks to Obamacare it was covered by my insurance. |
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65435 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 21:27 |
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It's such an old-fashioned, stump-speaking, caboose hollerin' politico name, like Styles Bridges and Wendell Willkie and Woodbridge Nathan Ferris.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 09 2014 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 8642 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 21:55 |
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RNC 2016, Day Three
1) A protester got in to wave an anti-bigotry banner. People tried to cover her with Old Glory, and one elderly woman played tug-of-war with the brave soul. 2) Small flare up with the protesters outside as Old Glory gets torched. 3) A one Meredith McIver has been thrown under the bus for Melania's plagiarism. 4) Astronaut Eileen Collins goes before the convention to ask for science cash. Commentators facepalm and/or congratulate her endorsement of the Dems. 5) Cruz speaks. He gets cheers for mentioning Brexit, but does not endorse Trump. For this, he is booed so loud the end of his speech cannot be heard. House Trump is not amused. Everybody, especially Christie, piles on him, while Gingrich comes to his defense as he takes the mic right after, trying to stretch Cruz's words to make an endorsement. Trump apparently knew of this in advance but let it happen. Could this be the end of the Cruz Missile's sordid career? 6) Pence uses his acceptance speech to praise Trump by bringing up his kids, and then does some garden variety anti-Dem stuff. Christie's face when:  7) Al Baldasaro, a New Hampshire lawmaker and Trump adviser, is on the Secret Service's radar for calling for Hillary's death.
Edited by LearsFool - July 20 2016 at 21:56 |
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15309 |
Posted: July 20 2016 at 22:39 |
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Yep. If anyone really thinks that the president of the USA has the ultimate authority of how things run in the world then they haven't studied the historical development of power structures of the world. As much as i dislike Trump, at least he says some things that ring true, while Shillary is as status quo as Wall Street wants. There has been massive voter fraud in this country and there's no reason to believe it will stop now
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American Politics the 2016 edition
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npjnpj wrote:
Apologies for not saying this (but I thought it kind of obvious) there'd need to be a change from "winner take all" to proportional representation, which I always believed in anyway.