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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 12:37
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I hate both candidates but will vote Clinton if only for the Supreme Court, it's too important, between elections I'll still push my left leaning agenda until those candidates are no longer available.


not just the Supreme Court Ian..  it is the Senate which really is just as important.  As I noted, and perhaps you know better than most, perhaps the real game changer awaits there. 


Edited by micky - May 06 2016 at 12:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 12:42
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

It is bad enough that there really are people who claim that there is no difference between Trump and Clinton (no difference, really?  what planet do you live on?), but what makes it even worse is the insufferable air of self-congratulation with which they pat themselves on the back for the purity of their motives.  A child of two has more justification for throwing a tantrum over not being able to reach a toy than someone has for pouting because Clinton hasn't pandered sufficiently to their delicate egos.
 
I am tired of couching my feelings in tactful language. From now on, anyone that takes this line will hear from me, at great length and without restraint.


I'll live vicariously through you and be your pom-pom ra ra guy.  When I lose my tact I get nasty.. and have more than a few unfriendings on FB to prove it. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 12:45
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

It is bad enough that there really are people who claim that there is no difference between Trump and Clinton (no difference, really?  what planet do you live on?), but what makes it even worse is the insufferable air of self-congratulation with which they pat themselves on the back for the purity of their motives.  A child of two has more justification for throwing a tantrum over not being able to reach a toy than someone has for pouting because Clinton hasn't pandered sufficiently to their delicate egos.
 
I am tired of couching my feelings in tactful language. From now on, anyone that takes this line will hear from me, at great length and without restraint.


Very well said (and Teo as well)Clap. It is because of this "all or nothing" attitude that we had to put up with Berlusconi and his minions for three times. It seems the Clinton haters have convinced themselves that a Trump presidency won't do too much damage in four years, and in the meantime they will be laying the groundwork for the coming of the new saviour who, unlike Sanders, will manage to unite all progressive-minded Americans.

All I can say is, good luck with that. After all, if things get hairy here, I can always pack my bags and go back where I came from. I am not a citizen, nor do I have any intention of becoming one (Terri, I'll be glad to explain why when we meet in September). Unfortunately, it also happens that a lot of people (including many of my friends) do not have this choice.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 12:49
^ My husband, who has lived here for 16 years, hasn't become a citizen either. We may be grateful for that soon. 
 
Those who have convinced themselves that Trump can't do much damage in four years are sticking their heads in the sand. Countries have been destroyed in less time than that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 12:49
not to beat a dead horse darling.. but that kind of logic is stupid. The real successor, the  leader of the liberal wing of the Party is Senator Warren, who is, not Sanders, the real Savior they hope for. We all do.

And she has much to gain by Clinton winning .. as Clinton does. 


Edited by micky - May 06 2016 at 12:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 12:50
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

"Being true to yourself" so that's what matters. Not that the whole country can go down in flames. Purely narcissistic reasons of voting in one or another way (something I have already said about some Bernie voters).
Okay, fair enough, you pick your clown from a standpoint of fear. I will sit this one out.
 
And from all of us - women, minorities, the LGBTQ community, Muslims and immigrants - who will be so much worse off if the "purists" sit it out and Trump gets elected: a great big thank you in advance. Your selfishness will mean that many will suffer. If you can live with that you must have a stone for a heart.

I agree that Clinton/the democrats are more supportive of those minorities in words, but as far as their actions they are only marginally better than the GOP as far as I've seen. Trans folks have not been supported in the recent assaults against them in the form of bathroom bills, for example. If she continues to be as much of a hawk as she has been, she will certainly not be any great supporter of the rights of women or other minorities anywhere else in the world either.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 12:52
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

not to beat a dead horse darling.. but that kind of logic is stupid. The real successor, the  leader of the liberal wing of the Party is Senator Warren, who is, not Sanders, the real Savior they hope for. We all do.

And she has much to gain by Clinton winning .. as Clinton does. 
 
I agree. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 12:57
hard to effect change with a hostile Supreme Court and both houses of Congress. 

From what you've seen... what do you expect Democrats to do in the face of that. We gain control of the Court and at least the Senate. You'll see you support and protections. You should know as well as anyone that those kind of societal changes don't happen overnight.  There are a lot of people. Politicians and not that care about those issues and believe passionately in fairness, equality and non-discrimination. Give the party some time.. you have to continue to work on hearts and minds before crashing thorough the legalities.  Not to mention the opposition of a still very large segment of the population.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 13:23
As far as Trump goes, the thing that scares me most is that according to even his former campaign manager, he has no real position on anything, and is running on pure ego. If he somehow got into the whitehouse, I don't think he would be a fascist tyrant, but I do think he would be dangerous in that the people around him would influence his decisions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 13:53
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

As far as Trump goes, the thing that scares me most is that according to even his former campaign manager, he has no real position on anything, and is running on pure ego. If he somehow got into the whitehouse, I don't think he would be a fascist tyrant, but I do think he would be dangerous in that the people around him would influence his decisions.
 
I think his main issue is that he reacts first and thinks (if any thinking does in fact go on) a long time after. He is very thin-skinned and prone to see insults all around him. He is noted for taking vengeance at the drop of a hat.  Does this sound like someone you want anywhere near the nuclear codes?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 14:02
^At best he will be completely erratic and we will just waste 4 years with no movement in any direction. At worst he can be, well, anything terrible you can think of. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 14:08
Maybe voting should come with a crystal ball, they both suck along with their dead weight cronies in congress.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 14:11
Smile for the camera


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 14:39
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

^At best he will be completely erratic and we will just waste 4 years with no movement in any direction. At worst he can be, well, anything terrible you can think of. 
 
As a historian, I can imagine so much terrible that I tremble just thinking of the future.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 14:43
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

^At best he will be completely erratic and we will just waste 4 years with no movement in any direction. At worst he can be, well, anything terrible you can think of. 
 
As a historian, I can imagine so much terrible that I tremble just thinking of the future.
As an avid history reader, I can imagine what you can imagine... Cry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 15:30
Imagine Donald Trump does not want to be president but managed to defuse the republican party, being a historian or a reader of history does not mean you know what these people's motives are. I don't like Trump. I don't like Clinton or Sanders, This is not an eye exam where you say this or that. You should really like the candidate you vote for. Here is a deal I will make with all you posters down on my case. I won't tell you who to vote for, you don't tell me whether I should vote.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 15:37
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

As far as Trump goes, the thing that scares me most is that according to even his former campaign manager, he has no real position on anything, and is running on pure ego. If he somehow got into the whitehouse, I don't think he would be a fascist tyrant, but I do think he would be dangerous in that the people around him would influence his decisions.
 
I think his main issue is that he reacts first and thinks (if any thinking does in fact go on) a long time after. He is very thin-skinned and prone to see insults all around him. He is noted for taking vengeance at the drop of a hat.  Does this sound like someone you want anywhere near the nuclear codes?

I do think international relations would suffer, but I also worry that Clinton would use the presidency to just keep building up the US's worldwide neoliberal hegemony, which has already killed people.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 15:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 15:45
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Imagine Donald Trump does not want to be president but managed to defuse the republican party, being a historian or a reader of history does not mean you know what these people's motives are. I don't like Trump. I don't like Clinton or Sanders, This is not an eye exam where you say this or that. You should really like the candidate you vote for. Here is a deal I will make with all you posters down on my case. I won't tell you who to vote for, you don't tell me whether I should vote.
 
I am not telling you that you should vote. I am pointing out that actions have consequences, and that people will suffer for your actions.  If you are okay with people suffering for what you do (or don't do), then that says a lot about what sort of person you are.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2016 at 15:59
Baloney, people will suffer because of the actions of politicians

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