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Topic ClosedMinimum Length For An Epic

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Poll Question: How short can an epic be?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
5 [5.88%]
3 [3.53%]
3 [3.53%]
11 [12.94%]
11 [12.94%]
18 [21.18%]
1 [1.18%]
5 [5.88%]
2 [2.35%]
2 [2.35%]
24 [28.24%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Sweetnighter View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Minimum Length For An Epic
    Posted: December 21 2004 at 00:25
i'm going to say 9 mins. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 00:40

I don't really know what to vote for. Maybe you should've made less possibilities and bigger differences (i.e. 5 min, 10 min, 15 min, 20 min, 25 min). I don't think we really get a big use out of this thread, maybe a tendency.

Also it's hard to define epic for me, but maybe i would consider the following the best prog songs ever (prog songs!!! there are other bands i like equally, but their songs are not as long, so i wouldnt call them epics):

Anglagard - Jordrok (11 min), Caravan - Nine Feet Underground (23 min??), every GY!BE song (~20min), Pink Floyd - Atom Heart Mother Suite (24min), Camel - both Nimrodel (9min) and lady fantasy (11min), genesis - both musical box (11min) and cinema show (12min??), King Crimson - both Starless (12 min) and 21st century schizoid man (7:30min)

Maybe you can't call 21st cntury schizoid man an epic, so I won't include it in my vote... so the shortest one is: Nimrodel (9min), i voted for 9 min!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 00:43
I said 15 minutes, If it isnt that long it just doesnt do it for me as an epic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 01:26
I voted 7 minutes, because I know some songs that are pretty epic at that length. But then I thought about it, and 10+ is actually a much better number for it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 01:36
11 minutes, 8 - 11 minutes would be a mini-epic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 02:01
6 inches.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 02:11

Originally posted by Dead Jester Dead Jester wrote:

6 inches.

Yes I know isn't it terrific.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 03:49
If an epic doesn't stretch to 15 minutes plus, well, they're just not trying!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 04:17

Genesis's FOUNTAIN OF SALMACIS is less than 8 min, so I've voted for 8 min.

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 05:06
Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody' is considered as an all-time classic epic by lots of people. It clocks in at just under 6 minutes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 06:23

This poll is useless.

Sorry, but what's the point?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 07:45
Originally posted by Joren Joren wrote:

This poll is useless.


Sorry, but what's the point?



Bit harsh there, J.....

There are over 2550 topics on the forums so far, not all of them worthy, by any means.

You been taking subtelty lessons from a certain reincarnated circus performer??

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 14:18

I'd say under 5 minutes.

To take some very different examples, only one track on "A Wizard, A True Star" is over 5 minutes long, and most of them are truly epic. Ruins also play mostly short pieces which contain more ideas then many side long concept pieces. "Immigrant Song" takes you to Valhalla and back in less time than it takes to boil an egg.

Don't get me wrong, I love long pieces, but there's more to an epic than just duration.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 14:26

Very difficult to put a figure on it, as an epic is not really defined by its length. For example, "Can utility and the coast liners" by Genesis is for me, everything an epic should be, yet it's about 5 minutes.

On the other hand, "Facelift" by Soft machine is about 20 minutes, but I see it as a jazz fusion improvisation, and by no means epic.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 14:32
I would say 15 minutes!!...maybe longer!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 15:14
I'm gonna say 6 minutes because that time is roughly in the middle of the range of song length's on Genesis's "Trespass".  Once I understood the album I noted that all the songs have 20 minute epic feel.  the somgs are just as rewarding as well.  Don't forget Peter Gabriel's "Family Snapshot", it's definately a 20 minute - 4 minute song
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 15:51

Epic - First definition is "A LONG narrative poem".

Thus a prog epic must have length as a pre-requisite, the average prog track is approximately 7.5 mins in Length...thus an epic must be twice as long at least - thus the 15 mins plus......

Q.E.D

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 16:19

I think it all depends. "Epic" is a term that can be used pretty loosely. But I think to be qualified as an epic, the song must tell a story. All four of the long songs on Selling England by the Pound could be considered epics with that criteria. But these songs would be just as epic as they would be with the extended instrumental sections, especially in Firth of Fifth and The Cinema Show. The problem is, take those sections out and they lose part of their dynamic structure, and would not be a prog as they were without it. But a song doesn't have to be long to be prog, YYZ is undoubtedly a progressive piece, and only clocks in at 4:24. An epic song can just as easily be summed up in 5 minutes. A Day in the Life is certainly an epic, but of course, it isn't really prog.

You see, in order for a song to have epic and progressive qualities, it must be long for the story and music to both play their part. Xanadu is both, but would it still be both without the five minute instrumental intro? I don't really think you can put a label like "all songs over 15 minutes" are epics, since A Day in the Life and Xanadu are epic and under 15 minutes. It really depends on the song, just as there are songs over 15 minutes that are certainly not epics.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 16:23

22 minutes and 54 seconds is the perfect length for an epic

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Walking across the sitting room.....

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maani View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2004 at 18:43

All:

Swinton seems to be going in the right direction by suggesting that the word "epic" needs definition (sort of like "prog"...).  However, it can also be looked at from the opposite direction.

If 9 minutes - or even 15 minutes - is "epic," then what word (other than "masterpiece"...) do we use to describe compositions like "Supper's Ready," "Thick as a Brick," "Zarathustra," or any other 20-minute+ composition?

Conversely, if we describe those (properly, in my opinion) as "epics," then we need another word to describe the compositions offered thus far.

Peace.



Edited by maani
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