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hieronymous
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Joined: December 27 2012
Location: Oakland, CA
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Points: 308
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Posted: April 02 2016 at 23:15 |
I definitely like Blackmore better - but I also always preferred Deep Purple to Led Zeppelin.
The other night I put on some late Mark III - live in Europe or some such thing - and felt like I perceived a lack of depth in Blackmore's playing. Of course, this isn't his best playing - I'll have to put on some early Rainbow or something - his playing is kind of patchwork - lick after lick - I remember him saying that the only guitar solo he could remember was Highway Star - but solos can be constructed in a musical way - Jerry Garcia springs to mind, maybe Uli Jon Roth? Definitely Steve Howe. But of course these are all vastly different players.
I think that Page was much more of a visionary, and I listened to Zep pretty intently for a year or two in high school. Actually neither band really draws me in right now, but even now if I had to choose one it would be Deep Purple. So I voted Blackers!
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gr8dane
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Joined: May 11 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1127
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Posted: April 14 2016 at 06:09 |
Blackmore. Looks like there will be court case for Stairway to Heaven rip off. Good ole Jimmy.
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Shake & bake.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: April 14 2016 at 06:44 |
Oh dear.
To be quite honest with you, I never see the point of these threads. Comparing one musician with another one is ... well, pretty pointless.
The problem with "guitar idols" is that non musicians are told "this person is a good guitarist" by people who are trying to shift records. Non musicians don't actually know, and it's very difficult to convey to a fan that perhaps Slash et al are actually not good players and merely the tip of a marketing exercise. You will not convince a Led Zep or Deep Purple fan that their idols aren't very good, as they "know". Actually, they're confusing "opinion" with "knowledge", but there y'go.
Before you, Dear Readers, read this and your hackles go up - "Do you actually play guitar to a high standard ??? " I'm not trying to stir anything here, I'm just giving you the musicians' perspective.
From a musical point of view, Jimmy Page was, in the early days, good in a studio environment but absolutely horrendous live. His timing is atrocious and he chokes or misses notes. I wouldn't say "rubbish", but his reputation has been massively inflated. When the drugs kicked in, Page was worthless. There was apparently one particular gig where he was fretting chords on one neck of a double neck guitar, playing the other one, and either didn't notice or didn't care, he was so out of it. Some of his work is musically creative, but he's not particularly good, honestly. Massively overinflated reputation.
Blackmore is several levels above Page and displays quite an amazing (for the time) level of musical creativity and concentration. He has a much wider range of influences to call on, he really was something special. And then, guess what ? He gets lazy and almost resentful of playing and being "a guitar hero" and it all goes sour. However, I rate Blackmore about ten levels higher than Jimmy Page.
Of course, all the Zep fans will now be outraged, the Purple fans possibly as well, but..... the point I'm trying to make is "let's actually answer the question properly" rather than "what have I been told by marketing men and "best guitar player polls", written by people who don't actually play and are after your money or attention ?
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Davesax1965
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Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Points: 2839
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Posted: April 14 2016 at 06:48 |
I play guitar, bass, keyboards, sax, flute. I work with someone who is possibly the worlds' worst guitar player - he likes drawing attention to himself, too. He went off to Ronnie Scotts' once and told me how I would have enjoyed it "as they had a very good sax player there."
I said "Do you play sax, Will ?" "Er, no." "Then how do you know ? " "Oh, he sounded very good to me."
This from a man who thinks every sax solo he hears on the radio "sounds like Baker Street".
Is the question here, really, "Who do you prefer, Blackmore or Page, or rather, Led Zep or Deep Purple" ???
Edited by Davesax1965 - April 14 2016 at 06:49
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
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Points: 20030
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Posted: April 14 2016 at 07:49 |
The question for me is which one do I prefer to listen to? and the answer for me is Page, because he has the best riffs and songs - Custard Pie, Whole Lotta Love, Immigrant Song to name but three. I like Purple and Blackmore as well (although from what I gather as a basic guitar player, Blackmore tends to stick to the same key most of the time) but Blackmore (or at least did) have an ego problem.
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Davesax1965
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Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Points: 2839
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Posted: April 14 2016 at 08:28 |
That's it exactly - it's "who do you prefer" and not "who's better", really. ;-)
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
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Posted: April 14 2016 at 13:44 |
What Chopper said.....and I was going to say that to Davesax but chopper beat me to it. I have always preferred Page and Zep's music to Blackmore and DP's music. Blackmore's 'ability' aside I always felt they were a bit boring and had some real mediocre tracks compared to what Zep were doing on their albums.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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TheLionOfPrague
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2011
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1063
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Posted: April 14 2016 at 13:48 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
Oh dear.
To be quite honest with you, I never see the point of these threads. Comparing one musician with another one is ... well, pretty pointless.
The problem with "guitar idols" is that non musicians are told "this person is a good guitarist" by people who are trying to shift records. Non musicians don't actually know, and it's very difficult to convey to a fan that perhaps Slash et al are actually not good players and merely the tip of a marketing exercise. You will not convince a Led Zep or Deep Purple fan that their idols aren't very good, as they "know". Actually, they're confusing "opinion" with "knowledge", but there y'go.
Before you, Dear Readers, read this and your hackles go up - "Do you actually play guitar to a high standard ??? " I'm not trying to stir anything here, I'm just giving you the musicians' perspective.
From a musical point of view, Jimmy Page was, in the early days, good in a studio environment but absolutely horrendous live. His timing is atrocious and he chokes or misses notes. I wouldn't say "rubbish", but his reputation has been massively inflated. When the drugs kicked in, Page was worthless. There was apparently one particular gig where he was fretting chords on one neck of a double neck guitar, playing the other one, and either didn't notice or didn't care, he was so out of it. Some of his work is musically creative, but he's not particularly good, honestly. Massively overinflated reputation.
Blackmore is several levels above Page and displays quite an amazing (for the time) level of musical creativity and concentration. He has a much wider range of influences to call on, he really was something special. And then, guess what ? He gets lazy and almost resentful of playing and being "a guitar hero" and it all goes sour. However, I rate Blackmore about ten levels higher than Jimmy Page.
Of course, all the Zep fans will now be outraged, the Purple fans possibly as well, but..... the point I'm trying to make is "let's actually answer the question properly" rather than "what have I been told by marketing men and "best guitar player polls", written by people who don't actually play and are after your money or attention ? |
Yep. Even in the studio Page would sometimes have questionable performances (solo of Heartbreaker for instance), but live it was worse. His main virtue was his ability to create riffs, only second to Keith Richards in rock probably.
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I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65261
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Posted: April 14 2016 at 21:22 |
Come on, really?
Friggin' Jimmy.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
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Posted: April 14 2016 at 22:25 |
Atavachron wrote:
Come on, really?
Friggin' Jimmy.
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Zep rules.....Plant used to say that Jimmy played guitar from somewhere left of Heaven.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65261
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Posted: April 15 2016 at 00:27 |
Yep, it's one of the reasons he took the gig.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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tszirmay
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Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
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Points: 6673
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Posted: April 15 2016 at 01:23 |
Some things never change. I remember this same question being asked by many already in 1971 and seemingly, ever since.
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
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Posted: April 15 2016 at 08:56 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjOHFYPuuHk
This is the ukulele origins of Stairway. Actually the thing is "composed / derived of two pieces. There's some nice harp versions about on You Tube. Stairway to Carolan is the correct title.
The court case is about the intro which dates from c. 1500 and this which Page" wrote" later on. I saw this on you tube as well - the footage lasted surprisingly well over 600 years, technology really does last the distance. Anyway, I'm, not sure the Spirit crowd want to draw too much to this really. I mean R. California nee Wolfe didn't write it either. Neither did Bach and he's used it here and there to fill in those "difficult" bridge pieces when required, y'know how it is.... it's been hanging around for centuries.
Yet to find where Robert found the lyrics. Bacon? Marlowe? ... Shakespeare even? Who can say?
Bet Jonesy is glad he is not involved in this. "Were you involved in the writing of Stairway, Jonesey?" "No. But very few in the band were actually..."
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
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Posted: April 15 2016 at 22:19 |
^Uh...this thread is about Page and Blackmore......I think you meant to post that on the Spirit 'lawsuit' thread.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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