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Topic ClosedIs the original Prog left-wing?

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 29 2016 at 22:31
Hi,

I really recommend folks spend some time reading the "Eurock" thing by Archie Patterson. It goes through the very early days of what some music that became known as progressive, however, it was not the only "style" that did so, and many of these were also a part of a theatrical tradition.

I think that we can all agree if one person can play this or that, they also have the right to say this or that with it, and sometimes right and left is not even a discussion. But, it obviously makes for an incredible amount of opinions ... though I wish that more of these had a historical perspective on it, as things were very different in 1968 and 1969 than they are today, where no one gives a cahoot. The music we discuss stood out ... for a very good reason, and I think that Jimi's version is definitely left minded (literally!) while others were definitely different and in the other direction ... you could say that Woodstock was all left minded!

Try "Volunteers of America" and "Foreign Son" ... just for a taste! Brutal in many ways!


Edited by moshkito - February 29 2016 at 22:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2016 at 02:14
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

not true; there is right-wing anarchism as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

That is true, "anarcho"-capitalism exists, but apart from the name it has little to do with anarchism. As far as I know every leftist school of thought condemns it for its advocacy of capitalism, which they see as coercive and fundamentally hierarchical, which is completely at odds with anarchism. Proudhon, the first person to label himself an anarchist as far as I know, famously said "Property is theft!" Anarcho-capitalism however depends on the existence of private property. There are forms of anti-capitalist free market anarchism, such as mutualism, but as a general rule leftists disagree vehemently on the ancap label.

it should be no surprise that left-wingers condemn the ideology and phraseology of right-wingers and vice versa, so this is pretty meaningless.

I consider myself to be left-wing, but I try to free myself from such automatisms. and I rather agree with the term anarcho-capitalism. I do however understand the viewpoint of left-wingers.

but if we question the "anarchiness", if you allow me to coin that term, of anarcho-capitalism we also have to question the "democraciness" of modern democracies, or should I say "democrato-capitalism"?




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2016 at 02:42
I read an interesting quote from Robert Downey Jr., presumably a classic Hollywood leftie :

"You can’t go from a $2,000-a-night suite at La Mirage to a penitentiary and really understand it and come out a liberal.  You can’t.  I wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone else, but it was very, very educational for me and has informed my proclivities and politics ever since.”


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2016 at 09:37
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

it should be no surprise that left-wingers condemn the ideology and phraseology of right-wingers and vice versa, so this is pretty meaningless.

I consider myself to be left-wing, but I try to free myself from such automatisms. and I rather agree with the term anarcho-capitalism. I do however understand the viewpoint of left-wingers.

but if we question the "anarchiness", if you allow me to coin that term, of anarcho-capitalism we also have to question the "democraciness" of modern democracies, or should I say "democrato-capitalism"?

I think we are much better off questioning the state of our system of democracy. For example left-wingers generally support forms of direct democracy as opposed to the representative forms we have in most places.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2016 at 12:28
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

...
I think we are much better off questioning the state of our system of democracy. For example left-wingers generally support forms of direct democracy as opposed to the representative forms we have in most places.
 
It's a dead end, because no one can (not only) define it, but exemplify anything properly. It's impossible in this day and age, as everyone is an expert and nobody agrees on anything, and there is always 1 cent of a difference between this and that and these and those.
 
Reminds me of my own country after the fascist days of Salazar ... all of a sudden there are 100 political parties, the Christian puddings, the Christian alarmist, the Christian demolitionists,  the Christian Society of the Maniacal Book, and of course at least 15 different Democratic, and another 15 different Republican, and another 15 Socialist this or that ... and ... no one knows what they stand for ... so guess what you got here ... NOTHING! (... and so you know the results in Portugal were not pretty, and the violence was worse!)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2016 at 18:09
The only overtly political proggers I know of are Roger Waters (Animals, The Wall, The Final Cut) and Neal Peart (Assuming you consider Objectivism a political movement.)
Selling England by the Pound has a conservative bent in the sense Genesis is discussing the decay of English folk culture and the rise of American influence.

Supposedly the Mars Volta have opinions which can be interpreted from their lyrics. Supposedly.

Radiohead has Hail to the Thief, which contains several songs directed at the Bush administration.

Believe it or not, Frank Zappa was a serious fiscal conservative commentator.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2016 at 18:30
No doubt Robert Wyatt has been mentioned many times, but he's communist. I may have already posted here, but I don't feel like reading back right now, I had a feeling that Kansas would have right wing leanings (though not quite original prog) and saw Livgren is listed as a conservative. Surprise, surprise.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2016 at 21:26
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

No doubt Robert Wyatt has been mentioned many times, but he's communist. I may have already posted here, but I don't feel like reading back right now, I had a feeling that Kansas would have right wing leanings (though not quite original prog) and saw Livgren is listed as a conservative. Surprise, surprise.


Henry Cow was a communist collective.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2016 at 22:56
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

No doubt Robert Wyatt has been mentioned many times, but he's communist. I may have already posted here, but I don't feel like reading back right now, I had a feeling that Kansas would have right wing leanings (though not quite original prog) and saw Livgren is listed as a conservative. Surprise, surprise.


Henry Cow was a communist collective.


Yep, and of course in Art Bears (which formed from Henry Cow) the message is abundantly clear in The World as it is Today.

The RIO movement held socialist philosophies.
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