American Politics the 2016 edition

Seems we do need a dedicated thread for this stuff... I think it is going to be one heck of an interesting year..

Bush is out  *sounds of millions and millions around the world cheering*

so that leaves 3 realistic choices for the GOP...

the McBreakdown quick hits

Trump -  and you thought Bush was not up to the job?
Cruz - the answer to the question of what it would take for a old northeastern liberal to win a general election
Rubio - the epitome of american politics.. not a thought in his head.. only canned soundbites programmed in by his advisers

3 wonderful choices.. Good to see the GOP didn't disappoint me this year and reaffirms my faith they are the party of the loony and sh*t house crazy...

on the Democratic side

Hillary - yeah you can't trust her..  but wake up.. what politician can you trust. And anyone that gets Bill Clinton back into the White House gets my vote.. and should get yours..

Sanders - in my youth I'd bleed and make others bleed for this guy.. I like what he has to say. One thing about NOT being young.. is realizes it is a real war out there. Electability matters and denying the GOP the ability to wreck this country further with insane policies by getting the Presidency.  Is it a culture and ideological war dividing this country. Some realize it, some have their head in the sand and don't. What matters is he simply isn't electable unless running against a real lunatic like Cruz.





Edited by micky - February 21 2016 at 08:01

Atavachron wrote: micky wrote: Atavachron wrote: ^ But since Hillary will probably be president, it'll be even worse for the GOP if the Senate forces a delay.  Then they get a Clinton appointee and they look bad. She'd walk the dog against against of those knuckleheads the GOP can't decide between... but question is.  Does she get past Sanders for the nomination. If not... does an old white male northeaster liberal win a general election?... Yes she does and no he doesn't.

bumping this over David.

I do think it will be tight.. as I noted earlier.. I think enough will realize that elecatability does matter.

The vacancy in the Supreme Court... a swing vacancy at that.. plus the rather... extreme nature of the GOP 3 make this a 'must win' election. While Hillary is by FAR the most experienced and capable of actually being a good President (hell it isn't even close) she does have a big problem with unlikeableness and IMO that will keep the Democratic nomination process from being a done deal/coronation tour.. the notion that Sanders won't win against the GOP unless they descend to even further than plausible levels of stupidity and nominates a complete lunatic like Cruz as its candidate.. he won't win.


Now as far as the GOP side.  It really does look like Trump doesn't it.  Bush is out but it does look like Rubio and Cruz are in it for the long haul and that will split the Anti-Trump/ideologically pure votes from the far right.  So it sure looks like we are heading we are heading for a Trump-Clinton matchup.

I think the moderates will decide this.. of course the far right will vote against Clinton even if it doesn't think Trump cares about what they care about.. and liberals on the left even though they don't think Hillary liberal enough and a slave to big money will NEVER stomach having another Bush in the white house. Someone completely unsuited for the job. So it will up to the moderates.. and I do believe down deep in my heart.. and in my mind that when they enter the voting booth they will realize.. if they hadn't previously that Trump simply is not suitable for the job.  What has he done to make people think he would be a good President.. running a business ... just like the GOP to think that leading a country is akin to running a business.  Not anything like it.

between the two of them.  Hillary wins, not particulary big, nor particularly tight. The south and midwest will go GOP as they always have.. always will. Hillary takes the big blue states and the rapidly emerging blue swing states like Colorado, Virginia, and North Carolina. Tight.. very tight popular vote. Not particularly close in the electoral college.  That is what poli sci people have seen .. the math really does favor the democratic side in close matchups. It should be a lot of fun .. and will be to see Trump and Clinton go toe to toe. Oh I do have a thing for Hillary.. always have.. but damn.. that woman is tougher than most men I know. I wouldn't want to meet her in a dark alley... unless was wearing leather and carrying a whip

Edited by micky - February 21 2016 at 08:56

BaldJean wrote: I fear Donald Trump has a good chance to become the next president. he is just the right candidate for the uneducated masses who want to "be proud to be Americans again", whatever stupid thing that is. and they are exactly the clientele he is aiming for. if I weren't already an American living in exile him becoming president would make me one

yeah that is one bright side Jean... I'm still a couple of years from being able to become an exile. Still a few more productive years here left in me if my.. hmmm...  dangerous job... hard living and bad habits don't catch up to me first  hahah

 If Trump wins.. I think Raff leaves and (hopefully) takes me with her

the establishment didn't help Bush at all... nor will it help Rubio Teo IMO.  What it is all about ...is Trump..he has definitely established himself as the frontrunner.  Who becomes the anti Trump. If Cruz and Rubio split that and both stay in for a good spell (like they wouldn't.. neither strikes me as the type to fall upon their swords for the good of the party haha) then Trump wins.. no matter who the establishment wants.

micky wrote: BaldJean wrote: I fear Donald Trump has a good chance to become the next president. he is just the right candidate for the uneducated masses who want to "be proud to be Americans again", whatever stupid thing that is. and they are exactly the clientele he is aiming for. if I weren't already an American living in exile him becoming president would make me one yeah that is one bright side Jean... I'm still a couple of years from being able to become an exile. Still a few more productive years here left in me if my.. hmmm...  dangerous job... hard living and bad habits don't catch up to me first  hahah  If Trump wins.. I think Raff leaves and (hopefully) takes me with her

Not leaving until he gives me cause, as in discriminating against foreign-born people. Just sitting down with a king-size bucket of popcorn, and waiting for Americans (not all of them, of course) to eat all the nasty words they leveled at Italians for electing Berlusconi as PM three times. As much as I detest Berlusconi, the President of the USA is much more powerful, and much more likely to do widespread damage.

Raff wrote: micky wrote: BaldJean wrote: I fear Donald Trump has a good chance to become the next president. he is just the right candidate for the uneducated masses who want to "be proud to be Americans again", whatever stupid thing that is. and they are exactly the clientele he is aiming for. if I weren't already an American living in exile him becoming president would make me one yeah that is one bright side Jean... I'm still a couple of years from being able to become an exile. Still a few more productive years here left in me if my.. hmmm...  dangerous job... hard living and bad habits don't catch up to me first  hahah  If Trump wins.. I think Raff leaves and (hopefully) takes me with her Not leaving until he gives me cause, as in discriminating against foreign-born people. Just sitting down with a king-size bucket of popcorn, and waiting for Americans (not all of them, of course) to eat all the nasty words they leveled at Italians for electing Berlusconi as PM three times. As much as I detest Berlusconi, the President of the USA is much more powerful, and much more likely to do widespread damage.

there would be a certain karma to that wouldn't there.  For all the laughter here over what your fellow Italians subjected themselves to... I agree.. many many MANY times worse if it happens here.

micky wrote: Raff wrote: micky wrote: BaldJean wrote: I fear Donald Trump has a good chance to become the next president. he is just the right candidate for the uneducated masses who want to "be proud to be Americans again", whatever stupid thing that is. and they are exactly the clientele he is aiming for. if I weren't already an American living in exile him becoming president would make me one yeah that is one bright side Jean... I'm still a couple of years from being able to become an exile. Still a few more productive years here left in me if my.. hmmm...  dangerous job... hard living and bad habits don't catch up to me first  hahah  If Trump wins.. I think Raff leaves and (hopefully) takes me with her Not leaving until he gives me cause, as in discriminating against foreign-born people. Just sitting down with a king-size bucket of popcorn, and waiting for Americans (not all of them, of course) to eat all the nasty words they leveled at Italians for electing Berlusconi as PM three times. As much as I detest Berlusconi, the President of the USA is much more powerful, and much more likely to do widespread damage. there would be a certain karma to that wouldn't there.  For all the laughter here over what your fellow Italians subjected themselves to... I agree.. many many MANY times worse if it happens here.

The only difference is that Italians don't believe themselves to be better than everyone else (quite the opposite, I would say). I've never heard talk of Italian exceptionalism or all that bunk, thank heavens.  As far as I'm concerned, I think people should get what they want, and then pay the price for it, instead of whining about being victims of the bad politicians. Last time I looked, no one forces anyone else at gunpoint to vote for X rather than Y.

lazland wrote: BaldJean wrote: I fear Donald Trump has a good chance to become the next president. he is just the right candidate for the uneducated masses who want to "be proud to be Americans again", whatever stupid thing that is. and they are exactly the clientele he is aiming for. <div ="msg"> if I weren't already an American living in exile him becoming president would make me one Jean. You and the other participants in this thread are educated, intelligent, pleasant people who live a relatively nice life and enjoy a decent lifestyle in nice liberal societies. In other words, precisely the type of people who establishment politicians, mainly metropolitan liberals, such as Clinton, Cameron, Merckel, and the rest try to appeal to. Those "uneducated masses", as you put it, are, in my opinion, the very people whom recent generations of politicians have unutterably failed, leaving them to the cruel consequences of a global economy dominated by big business, and driving wages and living standards ever downwards. In other words, the old working class. For these people, nice liberal governments have been an utter disaster. For those reasons, it is entirely understandable that such people find nut jobs such as Trump, and the more colourful loonies in Europe, appealing. They talk their language in a way the liberal elite ceased to do many years ago. Unless we change this, we are, I believe, in great danger, from a heady mix of demagogues driven by hatred and, ultimately, war. Why do you think Putin does so well in Russia? Is it because, perhaps, the "uneducated masses" there took fright at what they were becoming in a post Soviet society? What is worse than a loony such as Trump in power? Simple, the continuation in power of a global liberal elite massively out of touch with the hopes and fears of ordinary people. Unless we find a middle, and new, way of governing, we are all in for very difficult times.

I partially agree with that. it should however not mean stooping down to appealing to the lowest instincts as Trump does. and mark that I do not equalize "uneducated" with "stupid", though there certainly is some overlapping between the two


Edited by BaldJean - February 21 2016 at 11:00

micky wrote: no doubt darling.. but I think Steve hit that particular nail directly on the head in his post prior to yours.

Agreed. However, many of those people are also those who in the past repeatedly voted for the people Steve listed, and fell for bunk such as the American dream. This country (the US) is built on the worship of wealth and success, and it is not surprising that the strongest elements in society have taken advantage of it to the detriment of the rest of the population. Unfortunately, after the fall of the Soviet Union, the American model has been left alone to hold sway all over the world - with the consequences we see now.

mark also that it is by far not only the "nice liberal ones" that have failed these people. I sincerely doubt anyone would coin George W. Bush a "nice liberal", but he has failed these people just the same


Edited by BaldJean - February 21 2016 at 11:11