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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2619 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2016 at 09:18
Hi
I want to talk about my opinion about Streaming as a Progressive Rock fan and I Ignore troubles in my country. I agree with Streaming and I don't think streaming hurt musicians. For Example "COLDPLAY" band. Their new album(s) presented in Streaming sites as soon as it released BUT people buy their album and pay for them. We must Categorize musicians for this. POP and Rock and Metal stars and Famous musicians sell their releases with or without Streaming sites.
One question : Is it reasonable that I pay for Unknown band or artist that never heard anything from them?! My answer is NO. I must listen to their music (as a sample) then pay for it and I can use Streaming sites for this. IMO streaming sites help to young musicians to present their music and find their own fans. There are too many good bands that never "Listened" and never found their own place in music market.
Tours, Live Concerts , T Shirts and ... make money for KNOWN bands. I hope you get my point clearly. 
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2016 at 09:57
"I don't think streaming hurt musicians" - well, no one HAS to sign up for it, as a musician. But those who do are paid appallingly. We all seem to agree on that.

"BUT people buy their album and pay for them." - unfortunately not. People just seem to use streaming sites as a free radio station. You just mentioned that you can't use Paypal in Iran.... so how are you going to actually pay for music you've heard on a streaming site ? 

" Is it reasonable that I pay for Unknown band or artist that never heard anything from them?! My answer is NO. " - mine, too !!! No one would expect you to do that. However, you can anyway, and not use streaming sites to listen to music.

"IMO streaming sites help to young musicians to present their music and find their own fans. " - in my opinion, as a musician, they don't. People just use it as one big, free radio and never actually buy the music. The problem is that music is being presented to the general public as "nearly free". 

"Tours, Live Concerts , T Shirts and ... make money for KNOWN bands." This is very true. To get to a point where you can do that, you have to have built up a fan base who will buy merchandise, tickets, etc. The trouble is that I can't see many people listening to streaming sites and buying music as a result afterwards. It's all presented as "You don't really have to pay for it, of course." So it just devalues music.

Listen to a band on YouTube or Bandcamp and then buy their music if you like them. But please DO - however you listen to it- buy the music at some point. Streaming sites are just used as free music radio by the vast majority of people. And that's a bad thing. 

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infocat View Drop Down
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Points: 4671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2016 at 18:43
O666: I'm guessing that international sanctions against your country are the reason you cannot use Visa or Paypal...


Edited by infocat - January 09 2016 at 18:44
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 06:40
Smile

Makes you wonder how they DO pay for music in some countries. I think the simple answer is that they don't. 

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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2619 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 08:42
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

"I don't think streaming hurt musicians" - well, no one HAS to sign up for it, as a musician. But those who do are paid appallingly. We all seem to agree on that.

"BUT people buy their album and pay for them." - unfortunately not. People just seem to use streaming sites as a free radio station. You just mentioned that you can't use Paypal in Iran.... so how are you going to actually pay for music you've heard on a streaming site ? 

" Is it reasonable that I pay for Unknown band or artist that never heard anything from them?! My answer is NO. " - mine, too !!! No one would expect you to do that. However, you can anyway, and not use streaming sites to listen to music.

"IMO streaming sites help to young musicians to present their music and find their own fans. " - in my opinion, as a musician, they don't. People just use it as one big, free radio and never actually buy the music. The problem is that music is being presented to the general public as "nearly free". 

"Tours, Live Concerts , T Shirts and ... make money for KNOWN bands." This is very true. To get to a point where you can do that, you have to have built up a fan base who will buy merchandise, tickets, etc. The trouble is that I can't see many people listening to streaming sites and buying music as a result afterwards. It's all presented as "You don't really have to pay for it, of course." So it just devalues music.

Listen to a band on YouTube or Bandcamp and then buy their music if you like them. But please DO - however you listen to it- buy the music at some point. Streaming sites are just used as free music radio by the vast majority of people. And that's a bad thing. 











Oh no. You don't know me and you judge me and its upset me. I said to you that I don't talk about myself but unfortunately you use another things to proof yourself!!! You are not "Reasonable" . I can't and don't want to say to you how I pay for music that I like and this isn't your business! You talked about Streaming not me!
I saw guys like you in forums so much. You repeated ONLY 1 thing without hear to anyone. You choose wrong way to discuss. I prefer to talk with Reasonable guys about music not about Personal and dangerous things.
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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2619 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 08:49
Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

O666: I'm guessing that international sanctions against your country are the reason you cannot use Visa or Paypal...
Yes. You right 100%. In one hand west political guys talk about freedom and democracy and in other hand their sanctions don't let Iranians to buy music or ... in internet! I heard some of these sanctions will break soon. (I don't know using break is right or wrong! )  . Thanks a lot for mention to sanctions.
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 10:11
That's a bit odd, I was mainly agreeing with you. ;-)

Apologies for any offence caused ! As a PS, I have a number of Iranian friends and don't agree with sanctions against Iran, but best to keep politics out of the discussion. 



Edited by Davesax1965 - January 10 2016 at 10:25

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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2619 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 10:31
No my friend (I know you as a friend that I disagree with him). You accused me to lie. It isn't fair. Believe me I don't listen to Streaming sites everyday. I like to have my fav music with Best quality and complete information. I prefer to buy CDs than pay for Download. I have a great (IMO) archive of Progressive Rock music and I payed for most of them from 30-31 years earlier till now. 
I want to be honest. Sometimes I saw a new band name that labeled with Progressive Rock sub genres. In this conditions , I refer to one of Streaming sites to hear what they play. If I like them , I got their album. 
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 11:01
That's great. You buy the music, which makes you a proper fan. Well done. ;-)
And that is the best way to use streaming sites. I wish everyone did. 

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Angelo View Drop Down
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 11:05
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

"BUT people buy their album and pay for them." - unfortunately not. People just seem to use streaming sites as a free radio station. You just mentioned that you can't use Paypal in Iran.... so how are you going to actually pay for music you've heard on a streaming site ? 

Glad you guys agree. Omid, the word 'you' in the sentence 'so how are you going to pay' does not refer to you as a person, but to people in general. It's a bit odd to read it like that if English is not your native language, but I am very sure that Dave was not trying to accuse you here - he's far to friendly and polite for that. :)

EDIT: Dave, let me make this work two ways. I've been in touch with Omid before, and he is sincere here as well. We talked about music that we both bought when we were you (and our tastes seem to match), and we actually own quite a few of the same albums it turns out.




Edited by Angelo - January 10 2016 at 11:07
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I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 11:12
Hi Angelo and Omid - thanks, Angelo. 

Omid, honestly, I was only speaking generally and wouldn't think of accusing you of anything. You are using streaming sites properly, as they should be. That's great and I wish everyone was. All the best ! 

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Angelo View Drop Down
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 11:57
Welcome Dave, I owed you one after our similar issue over the word 'you' last week LOL
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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O666 View Drop Down
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Points: 2619 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2016 at 13:00
Hi Angelo
You right. I talked about myself and Dave talked about people generally. I thought about that deeply but I can't say Streaming is bad. Dave right. Perhaps many people use Streaming sites badly but they are mistake not Streaming site. Oooh its hard  for me to explain clearly my opinion. Another question is If you close Streaming Sites , Are you sure people that use them, now pay for music? Perhaps some of them do this but (with Dave point of view) most of them try to find another FREE way. I don't think Streaming sites hurt musicians very hard.
Now another point : You can using a Knife for ordinary reasons like cooking or cuting fruits or ... and someone can Kill  a man with that knife. Are we must stop produce Knife?! ofcourse not. Maybe you say to me , these 2 condition are Un-Comparable but we can think about that.
I want to talk to you Dave : I guess I make a new "Misunderstanding". Honestly I thought you accused me to lie but Now I'm sure you didn't . Sorry if I upset you Dave. Thanks for your replies.
    
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2016 at 07:05
No worries, gents - a subject we all feel very passionately about ! ;-)

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