Why so much Genesis love?

AZF wrote: Jeffro wrote: I am just now getting into Genesis. Like someone here once said, (paraphrase) Genesis just clicked with me. I get it now. I've been absorbing everything I can from Trespass though Duke. Just amazing stuff. Musical Box blows my mind. Watcher of the Skies and Supper's Ready as well. So much more to dig into though. Should be fun I miss how Genesis were one of the best bands ever when I first got into listening to them!  Which albums are you finding to be your favourites? Or is it too soon to say?

Trick of the Tail is an interesting album. It's got some amazing proggy stuff that I would say rivals the earlier material and yet has some songs that don't, imo

Well, you really need to understand that Genesis, after Hackett, became Collin's vehicle of self expression at the time. He had the very muscular side band, before Hackett left, Brand X with John Goodsall, Percy Jones, etc.; and this was his complex, intricate fusion drumming outlet. In Brand X, Phil demonstrated, rather convincingly that he was very adept at competing along with Billy Cobham and Tony Williams fusion playing and that, he too was worthy of being put into the drumming polls. And he was! But how do you follow that up? Answer, you go into the simple and mundane strategy. The birth of And The There Were Three. Oh don't get me wrong the opener Down and Out is a mutha to play on the drums, with Collin's single bass drum galloping technique still blowing minds today. But these are pop songs for the most part. Now, what transpired next though is what really changed Genesis for good. Phil got divorced. That messed up Phil so much that he spent months writing about lost love and moving forward. And not only on his solo albums, but hints of it appear throughout the balance of Genesis Albums through Invisible Touch. My recommended advice...go back and listen to Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot - especially Supper's Ready - and The Lamb. Forget the Gabriel costumes and get into his use of alliteration and meaning in the lyrics he wrote. You will find more to love about Genesis than simply Collins or Hackett. 

^ No idea what you mean!

Again, I dispute the thesis that post-Hackett, Collins engineered a personal coup.  Rutherford and Banks equally complicit in lurch to simplification and pop fodder.  Collins was also one suggesting that Genesis should 'go instrumental' post Gabriel...

x420BLAZEWOLF98x wrote: People like Genesis for the same reason they like John Mayer. Real smooth. Gets the ladies in the mood, know what I mean? Fellas? Guys? Can i get a high five?

Dellinger wrote: Flight123 wrote: Again, I dispute the thesis that post-Hackett, Collins engineered a personal coup.  Rutherford and Banks equally complicit in lurch to simplification and pop fodder.  Collins was also one suggesting that Genesis should 'go instrumental' post Gabriel... I agree. Actually, my impression is that the one one member that has always been the most important on the direction and the music the band would create, that's Tony Banks... not Gabriel, nor Collins.

That's my impression too. It doesn't absolve Collins of anything (only a new Brand X album could offer redemption), but he was not alone in Genesis' infamous shift of direction.

HackettFan wrote: Dellinger wrote: Flight123 wrote: Again, I dispute the thesis that post-Hackett, Collins engineered a personal coup.  Rutherford and Banks equally complicit in lurch to simplification and pop fodder.  Collins was also one suggesting that Genesis should 'go instrumental' post Gabriel... I agree. Actually, my impression is that the one one member that has always been the most important on the direction and the music the band would create, that's Tony Banks... not Gabriel, nor Collins. That's my impression too. It doesn't absolve Collins of anything (only a new Brand X album could offer redemption), but he was not alone in Genesis' infamous shift of direction.

From everything I have either read or heard over the years, I am absolutely sure that NOTHING ever happened within Genesis without either the explicit or implicit approval of Tony Banks. Phil Collins, for all his later sins against Prog, initially, and very reluctantly, did what was necessary to keep Genesis together as a viable entity after Peter Gabriel left. The failure of his first marriage initiated the change in him. Just listen to his voice on any song from ATTWT and compare it to Duke. You can hear his voice changing, becoming more forceful, more angry. But until 1981 and his hit solo album Face Value, he was still much more the follower rather than the leader. Abacab sprang from Mike Rutherford's idea that they should do something "completely different" from what they had previously done. After Collins became a star in his own right, and only then, he became more an equal partner in Genesis - and shares in the "blame" for producing their later pop drivel. So, of the three remaining members of Genesis, I would actually "blame" him slightly less than I would Banks and Rutherford.  

Many of their early lyrics are very rich in a particularly English form of Satire.. Stagnation, Harold the Barrel, Return of the giant Hogweed, Get 'em out by Friday, Can utility and the Coastliners and sections of Musical Box and Suppers ready all deal with awkward subjects in a quirky, humorous but poignant way. I think that this overly English literary approach has over the years put off as many people as it has attracted. They (along with VDGG, King Crimson and to some degree, some elements of Procul Harum) brought a 'gothic' element into the lyrics and sound as well as producing some very 'pretty' melodies (some times just very small snippets). Genesis, historically, has always had the 'Marmite' effect (you either loved them or hated them) but I don't really think they did anything in terms or adapting and changing or becoming less complex or 'prog' than any other of the other successful, big progressive bands.. they were perhaps more visible due to many 'hit' singles and mainstream radio play and Phil Collins solo career, that's all.

SquonkHunter wrote: HackettFan wrote: Dellinger wrote: Flight123 wrote: Again, I dispute the thesis that post-Hackett, Collins engineered a personal coup.  Rutherford and Banks equally complicit in lurch to simplification and pop fodder.  Collins was also one suggesting that Genesis should 'go instrumental' post Gabriel... I agree. Actually, my impression is that the one one member that has always been the most important on the direction and the music the band would create, that's Tony Banks... not Gabriel, nor Collins. That's my impression too. It doesn't absolve Collins of anything (only a new Brand X album could offer redemption), but he was not alone in Genesis' infamous shift of direction. From everything I have either read or heard over the years, I am absolutely sure that NOTHING ever happened within Genesis without either the explicit or implicit approval of Tony Banks. Phil Collins, for all his later sins against Prog, initially, and very reluctantly, did what was necessary to keep Genesis together as a viable entity after Peter Gabriel left. The failure of his first marriage initiated the change in him. Just listen to his voice on any song from ATTWT and compare it to Duke. You can hear his voice changing, becoming more forceful, more angry. But until 1981 and his hit solo album Face Value, he was still much more the follower rather than the leader. Abacab sprang from Mike Rutherford's idea that they should do something "completely different" from what they had previously done. After Collins became a star in his own right, and only then, he became more an equal partner in Genesis - and shares in the "blame" for producing their later pop drivel. So, of the three remaining members of Genesis, I would actually "blame" him slightly less than I would Banks and Rutherford.

I can go along with that too.