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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 04:53
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Did you have to look up how to spell "lavatories", Dean? Wink That little "1" at the end of the word tells a tale.
Nope. Even as a dyslexic I can spell lavatory and toilet. The ¹ was used to indicate the footnote at the bottom of the post. Tongue

Well,  you certainly misspelled "wave" as "waive". I would not mind at all if all men "waived" their cocks. However, the further existence of mankind would be endangered then unless a method is found to have two merged female egg cells not rejected by the body. Oh, and men will die out then; from two merged egg-cells only female offspring can come. Wink


Edited by BaldFriede - November 06 2015 at 04:53


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 05:43
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Did you have to look up how to spell "lavatories", Dean? Wink That little "1" at the end of the word tells a tale.
Nope. Even as a dyslexic I can spell lavatory and toilet. The ¹ was used to indicate the footnote at the bottom of the post. Tongue

Well,  you certainly misspelled "wave" as "waive".
Yup - that's dyslexia for you. Now I have to correct it because you have pointed it out, however I have done it in such away as not to hide my embarrassment or affliction.

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I would not mind at all if all men "waived" their cocks. However, the further existence of mankind would be endangered then unless a method is found to have two merged female egg cells not rejected by the body. Oh, and men will die out then; from two merged egg-cells only female offspring can come. Wink
I have nothing against genetically modified humans per se. It's an interesting topic. So while I appreciate the humour and will respond with a similar Wink - there is a more serious side to explore that appeals to me.

There are two possibilities for female-female propagation:

If the embryo was created artificially would that would not qualify as a new species since the female-only offspring (I would perhaps use the term like 'scion' here rather than 'offspring') would not be able to reproduce naturally with another artificially created female offspring to create the next generation, they would still be able to reproduce naturally with male of the species.  The problem there would be if sexual orientation is not hereditary (and there is no evidence that it is) so prevention of male-female reproduction would have to be forced for the male of the species to die out. Of course in the absence of males the artificial reproduction would have to continue in order to propagate and sustain the human species. If the technology is lost then the whole of the human race would die out. We would also have to consider what the "Y" chromosome brings to the party and whether, over time, a "Y" equivalent would not mutate naturally from a fragile "X".

If the genetic modification resulted in a sustainable means of asexual/hermaphrodite reproduction then the result would be a new species (Storm Constantine explored this in her Wraeththu series of novels) so could not be regarded as human, mankind or homo sapiens sapiens. We would not be able to regard this new species as female even if it was created from "XX" chromosome data. As this speciation would result in both species co-existing and interbreeding between the two would be impossible then which of them would become the dominant species is a matter of conjecture, but if homo sapiens sapiens males died out then so would their females.




Edited by Dean - November 06 2015 at 07:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 05:47
well, maybe the exception in the first scenario could be avoided somehow so that second and all following generations would be able to procreate that way too


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 06:03
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

well, maybe the exception in the first scenario could be avoided somehow so that second and all following generations would be able to procreate that way too
How? Maybes and somehows will not result in a self-sustaining species capable of natural procreation therefore will always require artificial propagation. This is not procreation or reproduction but propagation.

If, as I speculated, a new sex-determinate chromosome mutated naturally from a fragile "X" chromosome then the resulting offspring would not be female but (let's say) newmale - to be regarded as a sex-determinate chromosome that would have to be able to procreate with a female and the resulting offspring would be either female or newmale, and again following generations would only result from female-newmale procreation.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 06:07
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

well, maybe the exception in the first scenario could be avoided somehow so that second and all following generations would be able to procreate that way too
How? Maybes and somehows will not result in a self-sustaining species capable of natural procreation therefore will always require artificial propagation. This is not procreation or reproduction but propagation.

If, as I speculated, a new sex-determinate chromosome mutated naturally from a fragile "X" chromosome then the resulting offspring would not be female but (let's say) newmale - to be regarded as a sex-determinate chromosome that would have to be able to procreate with a female and the resulting offspring would be either female or newmale, and again following generations would only result from female-newmale procreation.


Well, the artificial merging of egg cells would have to remain unless things ahppen as they later will in our reotic story.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 06:41
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:


Well, the artificial merging of egg cells would have to remain unless things ahppen as they later will in our reotic story.
Speculative fiction is a great way of exploring the 'emotional' (for want of a better umbrella term) aspects and therefore the biology does not need to be viable, it only needs to be conveyed in a way that is not distractingly unbelievable (as opposed to believable). I once wrote a short story where an ephemeral mated with a mortal and realigned the gender of its corporal form after sensing the sexual emotions of the mortal - rationalising of the biology of that was unnecessary because it was fantasy fiction not science or speculative fiction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 09:22
Yes. 

In answer to the troll a few pages ago who was basically saying "oh liberals LOLOL I laugh at you instead of these bills educate children" I want to say that we live in a REAL world. In the REAL world some people do a very sh*tty job of educating their children so to protect other people there are laws and bills written that address issues, if very imperfectly sometimes. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 09:56
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Yes. 

In answer to the troll a few pages ago who was basically saying "oh liberals LOLOL I laugh at you instead of these bills educate children" I want to say that we live in a REAL world. In the REAL world some people do a very sh*tty job of educating their children so to protect other people there are laws and bills written that address issues, if very imperfectly sometimes.

Especially since "Education? Wazzat? Gimme that reefer"seems to be quite a common attitude.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 10:01
^And those are the parents... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 10:20
Originally posted by Pastmaster Pastmaster wrote:

Originally posted by garfunkel garfunkel wrote:

An "anti-discrimination" ordinance is so silly. I don't understand liberals.

You're not alone, I don't understand them either.

I don't care about what someone feels their sexual orientation is, but they are still biologically male or female unless they get surgery and I know I wouldn't feel comfortable with a biologically female person in a men's restroom.

This isn't a liberal or conservative issue. To think it is means you haven't thought too far into the issue. The issue is addressing the civil protections given by a governing entity based on the sovereignty of its citizens. If the government wants to tax our asses and make us conform to laws, then it damn well better protect its citizens, in this case the LGBT minority, from discrimination. Just like the transgender community can't control their sexual identity, they can't control the poor upbringing and subsequent poor views of the prejudice population. It's the government's responsibility. That is exactly what they are there for. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 11:04
Originally posted by tbonson04 tbonson04 wrote:

Originally posted by Pastmaster Pastmaster wrote:

Originally posted by garfunkel garfunkel wrote:

An "anti-discrimination" ordinance is so silly. I don't understand liberals.

You're not alone, I don't understand them either.

I don't care about what someone feels their sexual orientation is, but they are still biologically male or female unless they get surgery and I know I wouldn't feel comfortable with a biologically female person in a men's restroom.

This isn't a liberal or conservative issue. To think it is means you haven't thought too far into the issue. The issue is addressing the civil protections given by a governing entity based on the sovereignty of its citizens. If the government wants to tax our asses and make us conform to laws, then it damn well better protect its citizens, in this case the LGBT minority, from discrimination. Just like the transgender community can't control their sexual identity, they can't control the poor upbringing and subsequent poor views of the prejudice population. It's the government's responsibility. That is exactly what they are there for. 

I realize it isn't a liberal or conservative issue, I was only agreeing with the poster who said they don't understand liberals. 

Like I said, you can't please everyone, and logically I'd think you would want to please as many people as you can instead of just a small group of people. That's why I think uni-sex restrooms pretty much solve any problems, that way men or women who are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone who's biologically the opposite sex can feel comfortable, and trans people don't have to go into the restroom of their biological sex.


Edited by Pastmaster - November 06 2015 at 11:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 12:01
Originally posted by Pastmaster Pastmaster wrote:

Originally posted by tbonson04 tbonson04 wrote:

Originally posted by Pastmaster Pastmaster wrote:

Originally posted by garfunkel garfunkel wrote:

An "anti-discrimination" ordinance is so silly. I don't understand liberals.

You're not alone, I don't understand them either.

I don't care about what someone feels their sexual orientation is, but they are still biologically male or female unless they get surgery and I know I wouldn't feel comfortable with a biologically female person in a men's restroom.

This isn't a liberal or conservative issue. To think it is means you haven't thought too far into the issue. The issue is addressing the civil protections given by a governing entity based on the sovereignty of its citizens. If the government wants to tax our asses and make us conform to laws, then it damn well better protect its citizens, in this case the LGBT minority, from discrimination. Just like the transgender community can't control their sexual identity, they can't control the poor upbringing and subsequent poor views of the prejudice population. It's the government's responsibility. That is exactly what they are there for. 

I realize it isn't a liberal or conservative issue, I was only agreeing with the poster who said they don't understand liberals. 

Like I said, you can't please everyone, and logically I'd think you would want to please as many people as you can instead of just a small group of people. That's why I think uni-sex restrooms pretty much solve any problems, that way men or women who are uncomfortable sharing a restroom with someone who's biologically the opposite sex can feel comfortable, and trans people don't have to go into the restroom of their biological sex.

That is the very heart of the debate (pleasing the majority or protecting the minority). However, the constitution is written with a specific purpose to protect the minority. If the founding fathers wanted to please the majority they would have created an all in Democracy. They feared the minority being snuffed out by majority fears and misinformation. Anyway, there may be a solution coming that alleviates both sides' needs. Like the great coked-up King said, "Can't we all just get along?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 12:05
Ok but I don't want to share a bathroom with anyone at all, and im not getting that...

Also, i can't figure out why it matters which bathroom anyone uses at all. We all pee and poo.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 13:00
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Ok but I don't want to share a bathroom with anyone at all, and im not getting that...

Also, i can't figure out why it matters which bathroom anyone uses at all. We all pee and poo.


How dare you, Sir. Our beloved Queen most certainly never indulges in such base actions

Edited by lazland - November 06 2015 at 13:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 13:33
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

A depressingly large amount of people of  any kind can't afford what they want..

It wasn't about getting what they want, it was about the fact that trans people would be restricted from using the bathroom that reflects their identity by something out of their control (in this case the cost of surgery). It would be silly.
Quote If a trans does not want surgery then how is he or she a transsexual? If he or she just dresses in the style of the opposite gender it is in our opinion a transvestite, not a transsexual.

It is about identity. The most general way I can word it is that it is a situation in which an individual's personal identity doesn't match the one they received at birth (note: I am not referring to intersex people). This includes people who might identify as female despite being assigned male at birth, or vice versa, and also people who might identify outside of the gender binary. In general this means people will transition in various ways towards their identity. It very often means hormone replacement therapy, and gender reassignment surgery is generally wanted, but it also includes transitioning in other ways. For example, a big step is presenting as your gender, and yes this includes wearing clothing associated with that gender. But a trans person isn't wearing them because they just like wearing clothes of the opposite gender. They are presenting as that gender because it is how they wish to be recognized. Early in a transition, trans boy might adopt a short hair cut, while a trans girl will grow hers out.
In short, being transsexual is about the individual's identity, and not necessarily how far they can or want to transition.
I'm happy to see a discussion about gender identity. As a gay man, I personally think that people with gender identify issues suffer the most as they have the added problem of feeling as if they were given a body that is not correct for how they envision themselves, on top of the added baggage of societal and family conflicts, and the ensuing emotional turmoil that are normally suffered by Gays and Lesbians.
 
I'm not downplaying that many Gays and Lesbians are the victims of hate crimes and discrimination, as I have my own personal experiences with those two issues.
 
I just wanted to extend my support to transsexual and transgender persons, simply because I know what it's like to feel confused, alone and frustrated at times.
 
I had the choice to come forward with my sexually, but I never had to suffer the frustration of not having the financial means to change my sex.
 
Keep the faith and know that I care.


Edited by RayRo - November 06 2015 at 13:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 14:14
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 14:20
^You have a chance to learn something new today.Clap The real deal on transgender people:
 

Treatment issues

In 1980, the American Psychiatric Association added gender identity disorder to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). While controversial, this was seen as a way to ensure that transgender people had access to care. In a nod to progress, the next DSM will replace "gender identity disorder" with "gender dysphoria" as a diagnosis.

The shift underscores that being transgender is not a disorder in itself: Treatment only is considered for transgender people who experience gender dysphoria — a feeling of intense distress that one's body is not consistent with the gender he or she feels they are, explains Walter Bockting, PhD, a clinical psychologist and co-director of the LGBT Health Initiative at Columbia University Medical Center.

Physicians usually require that any transgender client who wants a medical intervention be assessed first by a mental health provider. A letter may be requested stating that the client's mental health would improve from a gender transition. "Over the last two to three years, a number of medical associations have made statements about the medical necessity of transitional care for transgender people," says dickey. While still somewhat stigmatizing, a diagnosis of gender dysphoria ensures that more services for transgender people will be covered by health insurers.

It is standard practice to treat the client for any psychiatric conditions that might be present before starting a medical transition. After that, medical treatment may include hormone therapy to diminish unwanted secondary-sex characteristics and produce or enhance secondary-sex characteristics of the desired gender. A 2011 study led by Colt Meier, a psychology doctoral candidate at the University of Houston (Journal of Gay & Lesbian Mental Health) showed that hormone therapy was associated with lower levels of depression, anxiety and stress, as well as increased quality of life in a sample of more than 400 transgender men.

In addition to hormone therapy, transgender people may opt for surgery to alter breasts, genitalia or other sexual characteristics. Other transgender people may choose a "social transition" that involves only cosmetic changes in dress, grooming or name, for instance, and no medical intervention.

Psychologists help clients in transition by providing guidance on how to pace the process through small steps so as to make adjustments easier for themselves and the people they live and work with, Bockting says. He stresses the benefit of linking transgender clients to support groups or online communities where they can learn from others who have taken the same journey. Providing resources and counsel to families to help them understand and accept a transgender relative ultimately benefits the client, too, he adds. Other clients appreciate a therapist's help in navigating the frustrating barriers of changing a name and identity documents after a transition, he says.

APA is developing guidelines for practitioners who treat transgender and gender nonconforming clients — work being led by APA's Div. 44 (Society for the Psychological Study of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Issues) and the APA Committee on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Concerns. A joint task force, co-chaired by dickey and Anneliese Singh, PhD, an associate professor at the University of Georgia, is expected to complete the guidelines in 2014. Practitioners can also reference guidelines published by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health: Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender, and Gender Nonconforming People.

The psychology of stigma

Despite the signs of more acceptance for transgender people, many studies show that they continue to face significant challenges. Research by Aaron T. Norton and Greg M. Herek, PhD, at University of California, Davis, for example, found that the rejection transgender people encounter is significantly harsher than the negative attitudes experienced by lesbian, gay and bisexual (LGB) people (Sex Roles: A Journal of Research, 2012). A 2009 study by the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network also found that transgender students face much higher levels of harassment and violence than LGB students.

In an effort to better understand the transgender community, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) launched a study on the state of health of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people. This 2011 report, The Health of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender People: Building a Foundation for Better Understanding, found high rates of substance abuse, attempted suicide and HIV infection among other problems in transgender adults. The report concluded that the marginalization of transgender people from society is having a devastating effect on their physical and mental health.

A similar conclusion was reached by the 2011 Injustice at Every Turn, survey of nearly 6,450 transgender and gender nonconforming people conducted by the National Center for Transgender Equality and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. It found that as many as 63 percent of respondents experienced some form of discrimination due to bias about their gender identity, including the loss of a job, bullying and even physical and sexual assault. As many as 41 percent of respondents reported they had attempted suicide — a rate 25 times higher than that of the general population.

In a study now in press in the American Journal of Public Health, Bockting found that half of the transgender women and a third of the transgender men surveyed said they struggle with depression from the stigma, shame and isolation caused by how others treat them. Anxiety was a significant problem for them, too. People who were the youngest and least educated, and those from rural areas had the most psychological distress.

Other research led by Andrea L. Roberts, PhD, suggests that being gender-nonconforming (while not necessarily the same as transgender) puts children at higher risk for physical, psychological and sexual abuse and for post-traumatic stress disorder later on (Pediatrics, 2012).

Looking ahead

What can help prevent such psychological consequences? One approach is providing resources and counseling to families to help them understand and accept a transgender relative. Bockting's research shows that family acceptance — along with peer support and identity pride — are strong predictors of resilience for transgender people (American Journal of Public Health, in press).

Psychologists can play a supporting role as an educator or advocate in the client's school or workplace as well. "A transgender person's experience can be better because of five minutes the therapist spends consulting with a client's employer to smooth out problems," says Meier.

More research is essential, too. The 2011 IOM report highlighted the need for more data collection and research into the specific concerns of transgender people, including teens, older adults, and racial and ethnic subpopulations. Based on his research, Bockting believes that developing interventions focused on increasing family and peer support can be instrumental in buffering the effects of stigma that transgender people face. The authors of the Pediatrics study also want to see research on family interventions that can reduce the high risk for abuse faced by gender nonconforming children.

APA is also working to foster more acceptance, says Clinton Anderson, PhD, who directs APA's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Concerns Office. APA's Task Force on Gender Identity, Gender Variance and Intersex Conditions began its efforts by conducting a survey on transgender, transsexual and intersex issues. Most of the transgender inquiries APA receives come from schools, which need reliable information on transgender issues for school personnel. "Schools have had to create policies and action plans for their transgender students without any clear guidance," Anderson says.

Getting better access to health care is a major issue for the transgender community, especially in reducing HIV risk, says Bockting. In the 2011 Injustice at Every Turn survey, 19 percent of respondents said they were denied medical care because of their gender identity and half of those surveyed had to teach their medical providers about transgender health care. The IOM report also identified the lack of culturally competent health care by providers as an obstacle in getting better care for transgender people.

The University of Houston's Meier, who has been working with transgender youth at the Montrose Center in Texas, is hopeful that as more clinical trials show the benefits of treatment for transgender persons, insurers will step up to provide adequate care for this community. He'd like to see longitudinal research that follows children from the first disclosure of being transgender through the effects of all related decisions made thereafter. Specifically, research needs to address how helpful various medical interventions are in improving the mental health and well-being of transgender people.

"While we still have far to go, we have learned not to oversimplify what being transgender means," says Bockting.

Eve Glicksman is a writer in the Washington, D.C., area.

 



Edited by RayRo - November 07 2015 at 09:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 15:08
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957

A paper about one patient from 1996 is nowhere near an accurate representation of an entire culture. Nice try though. At least you're trying to use evidence.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 15:09
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Ok but I don't want to share a bathroom with anyone at all, and im not getting that...

Also, i can't figure out why it matters which bathroom anyone uses at all. We all pee and poo.
 
I've never gotten that one either. I often use the men's restroom at concerts just because the lines are so much shorter. It's just a non-issue.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2015 at 15:23
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Ok but I don't want to share a bathroom with anyone at all, and im not getting that...

Also, i can't figure out why it matters which bathroom anyone uses at all. We all pee and poo.
 
I've never gotten that one either. I often use the men's restroom at concerts just because the lines are so much shorter. It's just a non-issue.
 
 


The thing is: you guys dont understand maybe, but the issue exist. What issue? Transgender people often are forbided of using the bathrooms that correspond to theirs sexual identity. Thats it.

The question now should be: Why are people unconfortable (Bald explain why when talk about showering, a bit diferent, but she got her point) and how we will solve this question.

I have no easy answer, but we got to find a way...
- From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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