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RayRo View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Would a Gay man feel comfortable in PA?
    Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:03
Despite the many wonderful welcomes and encouraging answers I received in my other post asking if Gays and Lesbians are welcome in PA, as an openly gay man, I would have to say that I do not feel welcome.
 
There were some glaring red flags that cropped up both within that post and externally.
 
For example, there was not  a single mention of a LGBT discussion group existing in any of the peripheral Prog Archives "non music" forums. There were "threads" that discussed everything from the 2015 NFL season to a non ending "thread" on Libertarianism. But no "thread" discussing Gay and Lesbian rights and their political concerns. Why?
 
There was also an instance of a longtime "collaborator" who mentioned that he was gay and was surprised that my question even came up. Again, I ask why?
 
There also seemed, by the person's site name, of either an anonymous transsexual or transgender person. I could be wrong about this, but as an LGBTQ advocate, I have a lot of experience in these matters and have to go by an educated guess. And this broad based posture of anonymity is paramount to me.
 
Prog Archives is not some bigoted discussion forum, but I feel that cultural norms and practices of the 20th Century, such welcoming gays but not actually discussing the "who, what, where and why's" is what is still dominant in the 21st Century for this site.
 
If PA wants to welcome Gays and Lesbians, it has to show more tolerance that simply saying we're welcome.
 
  


Edited by RayRo - November 04 2015 at 15:12
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BaldJean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:12
as a long-time member of prog archives I have to tell you that you are very much mistaken. there have been many comments on the development of LGBT rights in here. I suggest you look in the "news of the day" section




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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:13
Wow.  Okay, let me say this.  As someone who lives and grew up in San Francisco I've probably had a few more gay friends and neighbors than many average straight people (though that is of course changing for the better).  And as a central force in the Gay Rights movement, my proud city was instrumental in moving things forward.

If you want there to be a LGBT Rights thread, then start one yourself.   It would probably be welcomed with open arms and provide some fresh discussion.   You have to be the mover.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:17
Do I understand you correctly if you say we should discuss the rights of gay men here more?
IMHO it doesn't matter in any way to me what anyone's sexual preference is. There is a lesbian couple both very excited about this forum. We have even discussed pretty much on these subjects.

There's no reason to not feel welcome, it's almost socially forbidden here to say you dislike gay people.


I think (actually hoped) I missed your point here.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:18
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Wow.  Okay, let me say this.  As someone who lives and grew up in San Francisco I've probably had a few more gay friends and neighbors than many average straight people (though that is of course changing for the better).  And as a central force in the Gay Rights movement, my proud city was instrumental in moving things forward.

If you want there to be a LGBT Rights thread, then start one yourself.   It would probably be welcomed with open arms and provide some fresh discussion.   You have to be the mover.

Cologne, where I live, is to Germany what SF is to the USA in terms of the LGBT community. I had the good luck to (almost) live in SF as well for a long time; just across the bridge in Oakland


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:22
Are you trolling or is this serious?

It's a music forum full of individuals posting on topics they want to talk about.  If you want to start a LGBT thread then you are more than welcome to.  Not only is nobody going to stop you but I'm sure many people here would join the discussion.

That there hasn't been a vibrant, constantly active, thread to your liking doesn't make you some kind of victim, though, so stop acting talking like it.   You aren't owed anything just because you consider yourself different.  I could care less about your race, gender, or sexual orientation.  You're a fellow human being, with the same rights as the rest of us.  No more, no less. 


Time always wins.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:27


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:33
Originally posted by manofmystery manofmystery wrote:

Are you trolling or is this serious?

It's a music forum full of individuals posting on topics they want to talk about.  If you want to start a LGBT thread then you are more than welcome to.  Not only is nobody going to stop you but I'm sure many people here would join the discussion.

That there hasn't been a vibrant, constantly active, thread to your liking doesn't make you some kind of victim, though, so stop acting talking like it.   You aren't owed anything just because you consider yourself different.  I could care less about your race, gender, or sexual orientation.  You're a fellow human being, with the same rights as the rest of us.  No more, no less. 
I'm as serious as a heart attack. It's up to the gay members of PA to change things and speak up.
 
I would suggest, if they haven't,  that they first start a private general dialogue with each other and then move on to a public dialogue with one another in one of PA's peripheral non music "threads."
 
It's the year 2015. 1985 was quite a long time ago.
 
My best to you all in moving forward.


Edited by RayRo - November 04 2015 at 15:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:35
What an absolute joke.  You consider yourself different so everyone here has to bend over backwards to try to satisfy you?  Ridiculous

There isn't a scrap of bigotry here, except yours.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:38
this thread was started when Baldfriede and I, a lesbian couple, were injured in a car crash almost 10 years ago. read this thread; it should get the idea that gay and lesbian people are not welcome here out of your mind

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20539&KW=get+well&PID=1901153#1901153


Edited by BaldJean - November 04 2015 at 15:38


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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:40
You shouldn't conflate intolerance with a lack of discussion of specific LGBT issues. I think to do so reveals more of your own biases than those of the site.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:40
Originally posted by manofmystery manofmystery wrote:

Are you trolling or is this serious?

It's a music forum full of individuals posting on topics they want to talk about.  If you want to start a LGBT thread then you are more than welcome to.  Not only is nobody going to stop you but I'm sure many people here would join the discussion.

That there hasn't been a vibrant, constantly active, thread to your liking doesn't make you some kind of victim, though, so stop acting talking like it.   You aren't owed anything just because you consider yourself different.  I could care less about your race, gender, or sexual orientation.  You're a fellow human being, with the same rights as the rest of us.  No more, no less. 
Couldn't agree more.
Just because we aren't screaming HEY WE LOVE GAY PEOPLE doesn't mean we aren't welcoming you. Don't expect everyone to throw you a parade; throw one, yourself.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:54
as a German proverb says: "as you shout into the forest so it sounds back". when you put on a sourpuss and start accusing the members of this forum that they don't like LGBT-people they will certainly not like you. this has, however, nothing whatever to do with your sexual orientation but to the way you behave in here. having nothing against LGBT people per se does not mean we have to like ALL people in the LGBT community, just as we don't like every heterosexual person


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 15:59
Sadness. Very sad to hear this. This is a music site first and foremost, so your musical tastes are what is paramount. All else is secondary as it should be. We have general discussion threads. Anyone it seems would be welcome to start one. If no one else has done so (and I'm not sure that they haven't. Someone needs to check on this. I'm really not sure this is factual), then what can one say? No one will be offended by the presence of one. I share the collaborators surprise that the question came up because being familiar with the forum and the people in it, it is well known that there is a LGBT presence and that the cosmopolitan nature of the forum is what makes it a great forum. Most people here are anonymous, including those who are not LGBT.

I would still like to know your music interests and if you actually are a Prog music fan, given that you have only 9 points, it seems you have not, posted much in other threads. I could be quite wrong, but it sounds a lot more like you are doing a research paper on LGBT acceptance in web forums than actually participating constructively on the forum.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:00
I have spoken the truth. People who do not understand what a "culture" is cannot hope to change one.
 
I am done here.
 
I wish you well BaldJean.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:04
Originally posted by RayRo RayRo wrote:


I have spoken the truth. People who do not understand what a "culture" is cannot hope to change one.
 
I am done here.
 
I wish you well BaldJean.
Troll
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RayRo View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:11
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by RayRo RayRo wrote:


I have spoken the truth. People who do not understand what a "culture" is cannot hope to change one.
 
I am done here.
 
I wish you well BaldJean.
Troll
And who's fault is that?
 
 
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BaldJean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:12
I personally think it is not we who have issues with him being gay, it is himself. he appears to be extremely self-conscious about it


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:15
Looks like we got ourselves a martyr.
Dude, the only one persecuting you is yourself. You're the one alienating yourself from the site. I can't recall ever seeing anything homophobic, transphobic, or any anti-LGBTA posts on this site, let alone any recently. Sorry if you feel otherwise.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2015 at 16:15
I think the fact that this forum, explicitly dedicated to progressive rock music, made you feel unwelcome because it didn't contain threads about LGBT issues probably says more about you and your insecurities than the other members of this forum.

You, along with everyone else that is willing to respect the rules of the forum, are very welcome here.  You are entitled and encouraged to make a thread about LGBT issues if you wish.  We have many LGBT members that are very happy here and cannot report ever being mistreated because of their sexual and/or gender identification.

I honestly don't know what more can be done.  But at this point, it's probably best for you to move on and find a website that better meets your needs.
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