Serialism in rock? |
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Froth
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 19 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 461 |
Posted: September 22 2015 at 11:43 |
There are lots of rock pieces without a tonal centre but the only piece I know that uses the 12-tone method is Erk Gah by Henry Cow. I suppose a method in which all melodies are derived from a single sequence of all 12 notes and thus strictly notated, doesn't lend itself naturally to rock, even progressive rock. I think U-totem may have used some 12-tone techniques.
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Rando
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 08 2006 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 472 |
Posted: September 27 2015 at 00:13 |
Oh gosh whenever I see or hear the word "serialism" my mind (and ears) recollects the music of Arnold Shoenberg, Anton Webern, and Alban Berg when I was studying music theory & composition at school. The only album I can think of at the moment is Captain Beefhearts & His Magic Band's "Trout Mask Replica" (1969). I know "12-tone" was used especially by Jazz artists like Bill Evans, and Miles Davis- You might also want to check out Frank Zappa - |
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
Posted: September 27 2015 at 18:34 |
I don't see the big deal. As Dean was saying, I don't think I could tell if someone was using that 12 tone method. Lots of Avant Rock is atonal. Any time you use a symmetrical scale (e.g. whole/half diminished, 9 note augmented), you either don't have a root note or you have lots and lots of root notes to a point where it doesn't really matter anymore what you call a root note. Twelve tones are of course all the notes available and what is referred to as the chromatic scale, and just another very extreme version of a symmetrical scale, so I'm really not sure I would be able to tell the difference between some using the 12 tone method versus any other application of the chromatic scale. Someone should do some fact checking because I thought it was just a myth that the 12 tone method required all the notes be played before repeating, but I've been wrong before.
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 11 2012 Location: Columbus&NYC Status: Offline Points: 3167 |
Posted: September 27 2015 at 19:38 |
I know some people that hate this guy. But heck yea Ron. There are 12 tone sections in this and such. Here he explains how he uses his system and how it's not like the stuff Schoenenburg(spelling bad) uses. Edited by Smurph - September 27 2015 at 19:46 |
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: September 27 2015 at 21:32 |
As always, Frank Zappa was ahead of his time. Waltz For Guitar is one of the earliest pieces of twelve-note serialism ever written for classical guitar. Frank Zappa was 18 years old when he composed Waltz For Guitar in 1958.
Edited by Svetonio - September 27 2015 at 23:15 |
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2601 |
Posted: October 17 2015 at 01:30 |
The thing with the above diminished 7th chords is that all dim 7 chords are inversions (4) of themselves at minor third intervals (rather than different chords). The Oscillation cycles uses these chords as a 5- 4-1 standard song progression (just like any one of millions of songs) with the mild dissonance inside of each chord. Very cool and how to convey a sense of song with the 12 tone scale. Sort of Wild Thing via King Crimson. And a very good way of introducing adventurous sounds into rock.
Not as good as the five note minor pentatonic though. ;) hehe |
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boosted240
Forum Newbie Joined: October 19 2015 Location: Edmonds, WA Status: Offline Points: 6 |
Posted: October 19 2015 at 04:56 |
Even punks experimented with serialism... |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: October 19 2015 at 09:41 |
That was actually pretty interesting - even to a layman like myself who only knows how to play a bit of 'Nothing else matters' and this horrible tune I composed myself called 'Falling down stairs'. Edited by Guldbamsen - October 19 2015 at 09:42 |
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