Serialism in rock? |
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WeepingElf
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 18 2013 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 373 |
Topic: Serialism in rock? Posted: September 18 2015 at 13:58 |
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As ought to be well known, serialism has been the dominant paradigm in academic avant-garde music for much of the 20th century. However, I am not aware of any example in rock that uses such techniques. Is there really no such thing as serialism in any branch of rock music, or do you know any? (Not that I am much into serialism myself. IMHO, the whole serialist business was a dead end, and resulted in mostly ugly and unintelligible music.)
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Gully Foyle
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 26 2011 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 350 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 14:13 | ||
will be watching this thread, i enjoy some of the avant garde classical stuff based on it...
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer Joined: November 09 2014 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 8644 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 14:25 | ||
Best I know of is Sonic Youth, in their album of covers of avant garde orchestra pieces SYR4, doing versions of two of John Cage's Number Pieces: one version of Four and two takes on Six. How rock they turned out is debatable, but they are wonderful takes on the pieces.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 14:27 | ||
And perhaps Terry Reilly, who made the sixties album A Rainbow In Curved Air. I can't think of anyone else offhand. |
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ProgBob
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 02 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 202 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 17:27 | ||
I don't think Terry Riley was an exponent of serialism - minimalism is closer to the mark I think.
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Bob
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progrockdeepcuts
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 14 2013 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 394 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 19:13 | ||
Ut Gret's "Zodiac" is based in serialism, but not entirely.
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WeepingElf
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 18 2013 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 373 |
Posted: September 20 2015 at 10:01 | ||
Yes. Riley is a minimalist, not a serialist. |
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hellogoodbye
Forum Senior Member VIP member Joined: August 29 2011 Location: Troy Status: Offline Points: 7251 |
Posted: September 20 2015 at 13:19 | ||
I am a Minirialist
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
Posted: September 20 2015 at 13:29 | ||
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WeepingElf
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 18 2013 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 373 |
Posted: September 20 2015 at 13:43 | ||
You are right. He started as a serialist, but abandoned it in favour of minimalism. |
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 06 2012 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 8856 |
Posted: September 20 2015 at 15:14 | ||
Best example I can think of is Henry Cow's "Ruins." Few rock songs are actually serialist, just like few rock songs are actually atonal, even when many claim otherwise.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
Posted: September 21 2015 at 11:16 | ||
^Agree. But I have heard many atonal singers in my day.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: September 21 2015 at 11:39 | ||
Yes, Tim Hodgkinson in particular was really into serialism, I think a number of his compositions incorporated it, but in general I too am hard pressed to think of prog rock compositions that are explicitly composed using the twelve-tone technique. |
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O666
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2009 Location: TEHRAN-IRAN Status: Offline Points: 2619 |
Posted: September 21 2015 at 13:09 | ||
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 21 2015 at 14:51 | ||
I'm not sure I'd be able to recognise 12-tone serialism with a rock beat if it bit me on the arse. For example Henry Cow's Ruins is apparently based upon the Fibonacci series but you'd be hard pressed to figure that out just by listening to it.
Similarly I'm not sure I would recognise atonality if it's done well as it just means it lacks a tonal centre. |
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What?
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hellogoodbye
Forum Senior Member VIP member Joined: August 29 2011 Location: Troy Status: Offline Points: 7251 |
Posted: September 21 2015 at 15:11 | ||
Me too. The important is to hear music that I like.
BTW. The second atonal quartet (first of the genre) by Arnold Schoenberg is easier to listen to than his first, long and very complex tonal quartet.
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O666
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2009 Location: TEHRAN-IRAN Status: Offline Points: 2619 |
Posted: September 22 2015 at 08:46 | ||
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Smurph
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 11 2012 Location: Columbus&NYC Status: Offline Points: 3167 |
Posted: September 22 2015 at 09:09 | ||
This depends on how strict your definition of serialism is... Blotted Science works on stuff related to 12-tone serialism and whatnot- as do a number of weird complex metal bands. Sculptured's embodiment features a form of this writing technique.
In my opinion, you almost have to be able to repeat notes or sections while moving through serialism or it is difficult to make good melodies. I still love a good melody that is able to include all 11 notes...
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
Posted: September 22 2015 at 09:44 | ||
It's easier to find serial killer in rock than serialism.
Edited by SteveG - September 23 2015 at 10:14 |
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progrockdeepcuts
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 14 2013 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 394 |
Posted: September 22 2015 at 10:04 | ||
I believe Larks Tongues part 2 is actually atonal, at least in part. It's certainly chromatic.
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