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rushfan4 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Points: 66264
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 Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:58 |
 Saperlipopette! wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
I do like the raccoon and the sprinkler. I don't think raccoons playing in sprinklers are at all overrated. |
Agreed |
Me too. Kind of looks like it is playing a harp.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 12:05 |
emigre80 wrote:
Dean wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know. |
And the converse is of course also true, but "overrated" (especially in its use here) is a weasel-word that absolves the accuser of any requirement to explain themselves or justify their claim. |
Interestingly, that's exactly the definition the urban dictionary gives for the word "overrated." I prefer "to have a higher opinion of something than is deserved." |
I see no distinction between the two definitions, the latter is just more wordy. What is being criticised is other peoples opinion, not the album itself.
emigre80 wrote:
Actually, this conversation has enabled me to pinpoint the exact reason I find DSOTM to be overrated. I find it lacking in honest emotion (besides Waters' standard self-pity, which never feels particularly honest or emotional to me, just an attention-seeking device). Whereas WYWH focuses on someone else, and even while making extensive use of the first-person singular pronoun, really does provide insight into emotional depths. |
And that is a valid criticism and your opinion, I have no problem with any of that. It just doesn't make DSotM "overrated" as a result.
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What?
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 12:13 |
Dean wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
Dean wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know. |
And the converse is of course also true, but "overrated" (especially in its use here) is a weasel-word that absolves the accuser of any requirement to explain themselves or justify their claim. |
Interestingly, that's exactly the definition the urban dictionary gives for the word "overrated." I prefer "to have a higher opinion of something than is deserved." |
I see no distinction between the two definitions, the latter is just more wordy. What is being criticised is other peoples opinion, not the album itself.
emigre80 wrote:
Actually, this conversation has enabled me to pinpoint the exact reason I find DSOTM to be overrated. I find it lacking in honest emotion (besides Waters' standard self-pity, which never feels particularly honest or emotional to me, just an attention-seeking device). Whereas WYWH focuses on someone else, and even while making extensive use of the first-person singular pronoun, really does provide insight into emotional depths. |
And that is a valid criticism and your opinion, I have no problem with any of that. It just doesn't make DSotM "overrated" as a result. |
a higher opinion than it deserves - yes, I think that does make it overrated. But of course it's a matter of individual tastes - obviously it's not an issue for others on this thread. without discussions like these, however, I am not sure what's left for this site. "Here's a new album I listened to today and here is what I ate today and here is what TV show I watched today." If it's all just presenting facts without discussing how people feel about the album, the food and the TV show (and having differences of opinion about them), then there's not much reason to continue to participate. I just don't have an issue with the concept of overrated. In fact, I think it's a valid criticism and a way to get people to actually look at their tastes and choices and perhaps think about why those tastes and choices exist. Defending a stance often helps a person define their opinions beyond "it's my favorite album or band."
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 11667
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 12:23 |
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^Hear, hear!
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:00 |
Does anyone but me remember the "Academy of the Overrated" from Woody Allen's Manhattan? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyw6Q8qWpM
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The Dark Elf
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Points: 13063
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:02 |
Woody Allen is overrated.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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emigre80
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Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:04 |
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^oh, I sure do agree with that assessment.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:05 |
emigre80 wrote:
a higher opinion than it deserves - yes, I think that does make it overrated. But of course it's a matter of individual tastes - obviously it's not an issue for others on this thread. |
But the arbiter of whether it deserves the [widely held] opinion is the person who claims it is "overrated", not all of those who initially gave it the opinion it currently has and I believe that is unfair and unjust. [previously I used the term "an arrogance" which is not the same as calling people "arrogant", but that was probably too strong for the sensibilities of some around here]
emigre80 wrote:
without discussions like these, however, I am not sure what's left for this site. "Here's a new album I listened to today and here is what I ate today and here is what TV show I watched today." If it's all just presenting facts without discussing how people feel about the album, the food and the TV show (and having differences of opinion about them), then there's not much reason to continue to participate. |
(as I have said repeatedly) There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, there is nothing wrong in criticising an album, this site (not just the forum) is a review site, subjective opinion is its raison d'être. I don't have an issue with people criticising an album, I have an issue with the connotation that: because an opinion does not agree with the consensus then the consensus is wrong.
emigre80 wrote:
I just don't have an issue with the concept of overrated. In fact, I think it's a valid criticism and a way to get people to actually look at their tastes and choices and perhaps think about why those tastes and choices exist. Defending a stance often helps a person define their opinions beyond "it's my favorite album or band."
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I do have an issue with the concept, and its vernacular usage, precisely because it is not a valid criticism, it is a challenged others to defend their opinion.
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What?
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Points: 13063
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:07 |
emigre80 wrote:
^oh, I sure do agree with that assessment. |
Unless, of course, one likes to see Woody play the same wise-cracking, sexually-frustrated Jewish nebbish in every film since the 60s. 
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:11 |
Dean wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
a higher opinion than it deserves - yes, I think that does make it overrated. But of course it's a matter of individual tastes - obviously it's not an issue for others on this thread. |
But the arbiter of whether it deserves the [widely held] opinion is the person who claims it is "overrated", not all of those who initially gave it the opinion it currently has and I believe that is unfair and unjust. [previously I used the term "an arrogance" which is not the same as calling people "arrogant", but that was probably too strong for the sensibilities of some around here]
emigre80 wrote:
without discussions like these, however, I am not sure what's left for this site. "Here's a new album I listened to today and here is what I ate today and here is what TV show I watched today." If it's all just presenting facts without discussing how people feel about the album, the food and the TV show (and having differences of opinion about them), then there's not much reason to continue to participate. |
(as I have said repeatedly) There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, there is nothing wrong in criticising an album, this site (not just the forum) is a review site, subjective opinion is its raison d'être. I don't have an issue with people criticising an album, I have an issue with the connotation that: because an opinion does not agree with the consensus then the consensus is wrong.
emigre80 wrote:
I just don't have an issue with the concept of overrated. In fact, I think it's a valid criticism and a way to get people to actually look at their tastes and choices and perhaps think about why those tastes and choices exist. Defending a stance often helps a person define their opinions beyond "it's my favorite album or band."
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I do have an issue with the concept, and its vernacular usage, precisely because it is not a valid criticism, it is a challenged others to defend their opinion. |
I don't see anything wrong with challenging a consensus (in fact I believe in challenging all consensuses, if that is the correct plural of the word) and I also don't see any issue with challenging others to defend their opinion - particularly on this website, where often people have a "I said so therefore it must be true" attitude. I certainly do understand your point of view, however, which is why it might make sense to avoid any thread with "overrated" in the title, just as I avoid any thread with "tv show" in the title, because I know in advance I couldn't possibly care less. This seems to be a concept that sets you off, and life is far too short to court needless irritation.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:12 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
^oh, I sure do agree with that assessment. |
Unless, of course, one likes to see Woody play the same wise-cracking, sexually-frustrated Jewish nebbish in every film since the 60s. |
it got old many, many years ago, although I have trouble resisting Annie Hall if it happens to turn up.
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
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Points: 4807
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:13 |
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Are you kidding me, fella? I find all of them stellar cornerstones of classic prog rock. Come up with something else.
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Michael678
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2466
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:45 |
SteveG wrote:
No vote. There's nothing here that's overrated, over celebrated or over appreciated, IMHO. |
Agreed, mate!
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Progrockdude
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Skalla-Grim
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Joined: July 07 2015
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 305
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 14:30 |
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For me, "overrated" is totally different from "I don't like it".
I like Dark Side of the Moon very much as a pop/rock album, but when people call it a masterpiece of prog, it is surely overrated. It sounds great, but it lacks complexity.
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gloriousgoldfish
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 12 2015
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 14:40 |
Skalla-Grim wrote:
For me, "overrated" is totally different from "I don't like it".
I like Dark Side of the Moon very much as a pop/rock album, but when people call it a masterpiece of prog, it is surely overrated. It sounds great, but it lacks complexity.
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I agree to a certain extent. While I still believe Dark Side should be considered progressive rock I think it is a bit overrated in that sense (compared to other prog albums) It's not to say it is not an amazing album BUT just compared to other prog albums imo it is a tad overrated. Having that said I don't really like the word overrated as it could imply that something is not worth as much or is not as great as some might say. At the end of the day something that is overrated could only mean that it has achieved some sort of excellence and/or popularity. All the albums are great and masterpieces in their own right. But I guess if I really had to choose one it would have to be Dark Side, only because people who have probably never heard one song from the album sport that triangle on their chest like it's a fashion statement.
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wilmon91
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Joined: August 15 2009
Location: Sweden
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Points: 698
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 14:44 |
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I vote "Dark side of the moon".
And the poll doesn't say that any of the albums are overrated. Only which is most overrated in relation to the others. Which is similar to asking "which is the most worthless metal? Gold or silver?" (but they're not worthless!??!!?!!?)
"Which is the tiniest planet? Jupiter or Saturn?" (They are huge?)
It's just a play with words, it's the comparison that is relevant. So the question is really:
"Which is the album that have received the most sufficient amount of positive acclaim in relation to its quality by people in general".
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20623
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 17:32 |
SteveG wrote:
No vote. There's nothing here that's overrated, over celebrated or over appreciated, IMHO. |
^this
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Follix
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2010
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Points: 130
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 17:55 |
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To me it can't be DSOTM because it's the best album of all time (personal taste, don't hate)... Then I enjoy ItCotCK a lot and Foxtrot has Supper's Ready on it... Therefore I vote for CttE
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 21:19 |
Follix wrote:
To me it can't be DSOTM because it's the best album of all time (personal taste, don't hate)... Then I enjoy ItCotCK a lot and Foxtrot has Supper's Ready on it... Therefore I vote for CttE
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I would completely invert the order (on scale of least overrated to most: CTTE first, ItCotCK, then Foxtrot, then DSOTM) but I think we all agree that every opinion is (a) different and (b) legitimate.
Edited by emigre80 - September 12 2015 at 21:21
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Follix
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 130
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Posted: September 12 2015 at 21:47 |
emigre80 wrote:
Follix wrote:
To me it can't be DSOTM because it's the best album of all time (personal taste, don't hate)... Then I enjoy ItCotCK a lot and Foxtrot has Supper's Ready on it... Therefore I vote for CttE
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I think we all agree that every opinion is (a) different and (b) legitimate.
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Yes I agree, I mean I get why people vote for DSOTM because it's by far the most known album of these 4 outside of the Prog world. Even tho I wouldn't even consider it ''prog'' (Meddle, WYWH and Animals are prog, DSOTM not so much...) Still if an album from Pink Floyd is overrated, it's got be The Wall. Remove 2 songs from that album and it's borderline mediocre.
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Most overrated album No. 1
