Why so much Genesis love?

Dellinger wrote: I don't really agree with point 4 (nor point 5 actually, but I just posted about it). There's about no single Genesis album I like as a whole... they all have at least one song I rather dislike. For me the band to really have such a line of masterpieces would be Pink Floyd... or at least almost. I would say Dark Side, Wish you were Here, and Animals are among my very favourite albums from any band. I guess I can include The Wall too, even though that one is somewhat lower in my apreciation, but still a monster of an album. And I could put Meddle there too, but it may be even a bit lower in my apreciation (a few songs I don't really like, though Echoes makes up for it), plus, I would have to ignore Obscured by Clouds (also nice, but not in the same league), which would actually be cheating. Actually, if I wanted to have a listen of 5 great albums from Floyd, I might start with Live at Pompeii instead of Meddle, and then go from Dark Side to The Wall.

That's your taste, but most Prog fans (including myself) consider Genesis lyrics brilliant, but again, it's your taste.

But please, you create Pink Floyd streak deleting albums and choosing others, only Genesis has 7 masterpieces on a row, or at least 5.


Ivan

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 17 2015 at 14:38

micky wrote: haha..  I'll give it to Ivan.. he sure makes Genesis sound interesting.. shame the group itself couldn't do that for themselves.

Low blow .....

micky wrote: if ever I run afoul of the law.. I want you beside me in the courtroom Ivan

I fought the Ivan and the Ivan won.

For me, there's no mystery.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Dellinger wrote: I don't really agree with point 4 (nor point 5 actually, but I just posted about it). There's about no single Genesis album I like as a whole... they all have at least one song I rather dislike. For me the band to really have such a line of masterpieces would be Pink Floyd... or at least almost. I would say Dark Side, Wish you were Here, and Animals are among my very favourite albums from any band. I guess I can include The Wall too, even though that one is somewhat lower in my apreciation, but still a monster of an album. And I could put Meddle there too, but it may be even a bit lower in my apreciation (a few songs I don't really like, though Echoes makes up for it), plus, I would have to ignore Obscured by Clouds (also nice, but not in the same league), which would actually be cheating. Actually, if I wanted to have a listen of 5 great albums from Floyd, I might start with Live at Pompeii instead of Meddle, and then go from Dark Side to The Wall. That's your taste, but most Prog fans (including myself) consider Genesis lyrics brilliant, but again, it's your taste. But please, you create Pink Floyd streak deleting albums and choosing others, only Genesis has 7 masterpieces on a row, or at least 5. Ivan

Yeah, it's my taste, just as liking those lyrics is your's. For me, I much prefer Waters Lyrics over Gabriel's, but then again that's my taste. Surely if we make a poll here, Gabriel would win as a lyricist... if we made a poll among classic rock fans in general, then surely Pink Floyd would win by a huge margin. And about the streak, well, my first statement was that I didn't consider any of Genesis albums as a masterpiece, because they all have something I don't like (and I do am aware that I'm talking about my own taste), so 4 masterpiece albums in a row from Floyd is more than that. And many here might actually consider Obscured by Clouds as a masterpiece too, so that would make it 5 albums, and if you already got ObC into the streak, you would surely have to include Meddle too, that makes 6. And from there, it wouldn't be too difficult to find people adding Atom Heart Mother and/or The Final cut into the streak, making it into a 7 or 8 album streak. And then, there's just about no album I don't enjoy listening from them, which is not the case with Genesis, or mostly any other band around. But then again, it all comes down to our personal tastes.

I saw Genesis perform at the "Spectrum" in Philadelphia on the "Wind and Wuthering" tour. One of the tightest bands I've ever seen. I hold them in the highest regard for that alone! Not one indication of a mistake on any instrument or forgetfulness of breaks within arrangements. Just amazing! The mix was incredible and they were so great ..I just cracked up...I mean..I could not believe it. It was like seeing many other bands that reached a certain peak from traveling the road and doing a entire show like second nature. Example: An outstanding show by Jethro Tull or Yes. It was very much like that and kept you on the edge of your seat. They had such an amazing high level of perfected dynamics in music. It was very impressive how the band went from soft to loud ...and or the dynamic build up of volumes on the instruments ..gradually progressing was very Classical oriented. Some people in the audience would get jaded during a section of music that was soft and gentle. "One For The Vine"  in particular and that can be attributed to the times we were living in. If people were bored, they would light up some smoke and prepare for the more exciting parts. Professional Classically trained musicians from Philadelphia were in the audience to observe the band and learn from the experience of hearing the band live. They were forming cover bands ..playing Genesis music up and down the east coast of the U.S. to make a good living...and additionally forming original Progressive Rock bands of their own ...which some were signed in the late 70's during the downfall of when Prog was originally promoted in the media. 




Edited by TODDLER - August 23 2015 at 21:34

TODDLER wrote: I saw Genesis perform at the "Spectrum" in Philadelphia on the "Wind and Wuthering" tour. One of the tightest bands I've ever seen. I hold them in the highest regard for that alone! Not one indication of a mistake on any instrument or forgetfulness of breaks within arrangements. Just amazing! The mix was incredible and they were so great .. Genesis were an important band to a majority of trained musicians in the 70's who took music seriously...or took themselves very seriously..Lol! I was part of the music scene when Happy The Man and Nektar played clubs and theaters. I was basically on the road all of the time and skilled musicians sat in dressing rooms, playing "Entangled", "Dance On A Volcano" or "Watcher Of The Skies" and playing those songs ...not any worse, but maybe as good or better than Genesis, regarding their personal embellishments they added on their own. This was part of the development within the second wave of Prog, (maybe wrong?), but Genesis were a huge influence on thousands of American musicians in the 70's. All sorts of vocalists I knew from the road were classically trained and experienced in acting. They bought the costumes of Peter Gabriel and emulated his vocal tone to the max, and doing a set of Genesis material in a Rock club that was so packed, you couldn't even get to the bathroom before you had to enter the stage again. They were much better than many of the tribute bands of today. They just came out of music college and others had been playing Jazz and Broadway material in N.Y. Everybody around me was learning Genesis material at that time. When "A Trick Of The Tail" had been released ..musicians were blowing up each other's phones. It was ridiculous! Musicians knew that Gabriel had left and doubted the future of the band. A Trick Of The Tail completely chopped that theory in half and dozens of cover/original bands spent long afternoons trying to tighten up "Dance On A Volcano". So...that is the insight I offer from a time period when Genesis completely tore off the heads of musicians.

And true...
I've mentioned this before in past posts some years ago, but I (and two friends) were very fortunate to have seen Genesis Selling England show at the Roxy in LA...Then in January 74 caught The Lamb show in Berkeley...we followed them back to LA and saw The Lamb again at the now famous Shrine show. Three outstanding concerts in every aspect. Perhaps because it was LA, the audience at the Shrine show felt more electrified (at times a little rowdy) but embraced The Lamb, and still we weren't disappointed as they came back for two encores, The Musical Box, and Watcher Of The Skies.

We had also seen Pink Floyd, EL&P, and Yes, but there was no comparison the lasting effect the Genesis shows had left us with. At the time we were three music students at the university and we couldn't wait to get back home to learn how to play Watcher Of The Skies, Cinema Show, or the piano intro to The Lamb! No, we didn't become a tribute band but as Toddler mentioned how Genesis became an important band to "trained musicians in the 70's" Genesis to us became the most important and best Progressive Rock band, musically, lyrically, and conceptually.

Genesis made enjoyable music whether the involved epic or the harder edged sounds in the 80s onwards. They sound impressive and contain lots off details. The epics have the details going on, the songs have the details inside and happen relatively quickly. But their career is in a capsule and not growing or ... changing. (Jaws theme). Some like change, many don't and resist change. Can't change that.

Odd really as progression implies change. Lyrically PG's sci fi orientation captures (or not) the imagination. Lyrical direction was changed as Gabriel was no longer around. I thought the others did very well lyrically and the musical variety was explored more e.g. the difference between Dance On A Volcano and Entangled. The expected direction from Genesis turns up in the latter day epics; sort of historical works such as Driving The Last Spike and story metaphors such as One For The Vine. I think they became more direct with And Then There Were Three. a very cynically themed album. Always thought it should have been a 2 LP set really. There were a lot of ideas (Undertow) that may have benefited form musical exploration - it was like a great prog rock album but with truncated numbers. Then again I thought, and still do that Seconds Out should have been a 3 LP set and Live a 2 LP. But I'm like that. More is more. No changes there.

I'm fine with Hogweed (the number not that plant I found in the Royal gardens at Kew) or Follow You Follow Me. These guys are good at so much. Frightening and friendly. Or in the case of the Lamb, scary and funny (bizarre).

Too many changes for the CAS era perhaps. One possible observation of the failure of CAS was in that critical aspect - the drumming. Nir Zidkyahu was fine but very different to Collins. New voice and new drums was too much. So goodbye changing Genesis. Hello unchanging capsule.

Perhaps over familiarity with playing the same records and a resentment when the changes are too great for prog fans' pop sensibilities means time's up. Or maybe the demands on someone's time as an adult means less time to devote to playing the same record constantly until you like it.

Once upon a time a rock and roll artist by the name of Ricky Nelson went on a come back tour, early '80s or so. He had a new album for his devoted followers. They turned up to the gigs but the album tanked. The fans only wanted what they knew from the '50s. They did not respect the artist just wanted repetitive audio wall paper.

Not a new thing, look at the conflicts with  changes in Floyd, Yes and Genesis. Oh, and to a lesser extent Crimson from 1981 being different from 69 - 74. Perhaps it's not so much the music as what listeners associate with it. Changes to that makes them look at their lives and time and it's unsettling. The old days are always best. Can't change those.

I`m a fan of a Genesis freak like most here. even the Hackett`s " Genesis Revisited " albums... even the fans whom production of there own progressive rock music like Stevie Wilson do have there Collins era whom call them albums Collins Backing Band as most of the album where more pop than progressive rock, there where the odd two/three  tracks which where PROG!...

Well, it's pretty obvious they are popular here because they were one of the original prog bands that became well known (though oddly, less for prog than for their later pop).  They are a hugely famous band that probably led many people to prog who might not have been led to it (I'm thinking of friends who adored the 80's albums and decided to see what they had done before).  Whether individuals here like them or not, it's impossible to deny their tremendous influence on the prog world.  I mean, what other band was responsible for an entire resurgence of the prog sound (80's neo prog owes far more to 70's Genesis than any other 70 prog bands)?  What other band has been more copied in style and songwriting approach?  Yes might come close on that last one, but I've certainly heard far more bands heavily influenced by 70's Genesis than influenced by 70's Yes.

Also, they were a great, original band with a unique stage show for their time.  Their songs were very well composed and performed, with interesting, intelligent lyrics.  What more could you want? 

uduwudu wrote: ...... Once upon a time a rock and roll artist by the name of Ricky Nelson went on a come back tour, early '80s or so. He had a new album for his devoted followers. They turned up to the gigs but the album tanked. The fans only wanted what they knew from the '50s. They did not respect the artist just wanted repetitive audio wall paper.