How is this Prog?

That's the point - some 'mainstream' rock bands have progressive elements that means they are included on PA.  Rush are a moot point, but Opeth, etc...

OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!).

^Sabbath seem to fit to the prog related category just as well as Led Zep does, so it's a mystery to me why they are not included in PA too. Perhaps if they had some dots over the A in their name.

WeepingElf wrote: OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!).

Cynic
Tessaract
Anathema

Seriously, check out their lyrics. The umpteenth time I've seen your description of 'cynic-nihilistic outlook' in the last month and it's getting irritating. I think you're overstating the point, as there are a lot of exceptions.

Edited by twalsh - August 13 2015 at 09:36

WeepingElf wrote: OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!).

No one is complaining Weeping Elf because you're in the minority. Why do you suppose that is? Are you missing something in the lyrics as Twalsh suggested? Or possibly become too close minded because of your dislike of metal that causes you miss the progressive nature of tech? Don't complain, I'm just asking.

rushfan4 wrote: Sabbath are included in Prog Related.

Whoops! I missed that, thanks RF4.

twalsh wrote: WeepingElf wrote: OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!). Cynic Tessaract Anathema Seriously, check out their lyrics. The umpteenth time I've seen your description of 'cynic-nihilistic outlook' in the last month and it's getting irritating. I think you're overstating the point, as there are a lot of exceptions.

Then ignore him;)
If there's one thing this site has taught me then it's the fact that you can't change how people hear or see things in a music related discussion. Some don't believe metal has anything to do with prog (I'm not saying WE believes that - I seem to remember him thinking that DT were prog) while others feel The Grateful Dead are prog.
Well people can believe what they chose - just like our collaborators can.
It's just a matter of weeding out the nonsense (to you that is) from the gold....or merely accept that we hear things differently.



Edited by Guldbamsen - August 13 2015 at 10:05

^The Who are not included here? Wtf?

Edited by SteveG - August 13 2015 at 10:41

Guldbamsen wrote: twalsh wrote: WeepingElf wrote: OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!). Cynic Tessaract Anathema Seriously, check out their lyrics. The umpteenth time I've seen your description of 'cynic-nihilistic outlook' in the last month and it's getting irritating. I think you're overstating the point, as there are a lot of exceptions. Then ignore him;) If there's one thing this site has taught me then it's the fact that you can't change how people hear or see things in a music related discussion. Some don't believe metal has anything to do with prog (I'm not saying WE believes that - I seem to remember him thinking that DT were prog) while others feel The Grateful Dead are prog. Well people can believe what they chose - just like our collaborators can. It's just a matter of weeding out the nonsense (to you that is) from the gold....or merely accept that we hear things differently.

Klaatu. Too mambily-pambily saccharine for my liking.