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Topic ClosedIs there such thing as prog hip-hop?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2015 at 22:13
Originally posted by Dekkhead Dekkhead wrote:

Deltron 3030 
This album might count. It's at least a futuristic concept album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7_jbluF0qo

I was gonna post this.

Great choice. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2015 at 22:43
Dalek was already mentioned (who recorded an album with Faust) but another one I thought of was Prefuse 73, who I kinda forgot about/haven't listened to in awhile.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 08:01
Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

I came to the question while thinking about how people often complain that prog rock is too cerebral and cold--that it has no soul. I wondered if there any good examples to refute that stereotype?

Maybe this is a whole other thread...


'too cerebral and cold, that it has no soul' sounds like 40 or so years of passive racism to me.
Good examples to refute that stereotype? try the 53,141 other members who joined the site because this music somehow moved them in a positive way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 08:53
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

I came to the question while thinking about how people often complain that prog rock is too cerebral and cold--that it has no soul. I wondered if there any good examples to refute that stereotype?

Maybe this is a whole other thread...


'too cerebral and cold, that it has no soul' sounds like 40 or so years of passive racism to me.
Good examples to refute that stereotype? try the 53,141 other members who joined the site because this music somehow moved them in a positive way.
From another perspective, how exactly does hip-hop have soul?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 09:18
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

I came to the question while thinking about how people often complain that prog rock is too cerebral and cold--that it has no soul. I wondered if there any good examples to refute that stereotype?

Maybe this is a whole other thread...


'too cerebral and cold, that it has no soul' sounds like 40 or so years of passive racism to me.
Good examples to refute that stereotype? try the 53,141 other members who joined the site because this music somehow moved them in a positive way.

From another perspective, how exactly does hip-hop have soul?


This question is about music, not race. I love Genesis and National Health as much as I love Bootsy Collins and Herbie. I'm looking for common ground between my two favorite "genres" of music. But people do ask "how can you sit through a 30 minute suite with harpsichord interludes and goofy sci-fi lyrics?" I say "have you ever heard of Funkadelic?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 11:23
"Oh, I hope not."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 12:03
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:


 
Is a 41-minute epic prog enough??


It's 41 minutes long but it's not prog. It sounds more like an inferior alternative soundtrack to one of the Alien films. There is lots of atmosphere but very little substance or musical development. Just because a thin idea is stretched out to an unendurable length, it doesn't make it an epic.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 13:42
I'm going to repost this track, this time with explanation:


I am not a huge hip-hop fan but I kind of like turntablism/scratching. I got to know someone who was a DJ and asked him to overdub some turntable stuff to a track I had recorded with distorted/octaved 8-string bass & drums. You could maybe argue that the bass/drum tracks aren't prog, though I am hugely influenced by Chris Squire - but even so, the tracks that he is scratching are from Close to the Edge, so there's the explicit connection. Plus I dedicated it to MCA, bassist of the Beastie Boys, when he passed a few years ago. 

I've got another track in 7/8 with Moog Taurus synth and rapping by Warren G & Nate Dogg that this thread has inspired me to release at some point soon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 15:05
Originally posted by Green Shield Stamp Green Shield Stamp wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:


 
Is a 41-minute epic prog enough??


It's 41 minutes long but it's not prog. It sounds more like an inferior alternative soundtrack to one of the Alien films. There is lots of atmosphere but very little substance or musical development. Just because a thin idea is stretched out to an unendurable length, it doesn't make it an epic.
 
I must admit the suggestion wasn't entirely serious.  I had just come across the band because of a posting on avantgarde-metal.com (which is odd, since they aren't metal either as far as I can tell). Don't actually disagree that it is tedious stuff.
 
My knowledge of hip-hop is fairly pathetic but if I had to make a semi-serious suggestion for this thread it'd probably be Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy with their 1992 album Hypocrisy is the Greatest Luxury:
 
 
OK, I wouldn't honestly put them forward as prog, but it's certainly hip-hop that a lot of prog fans may enjoy. Musically interesting, superb lyrically and the record still stands up 22 years after I first bought it. They also kicked arse live.
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Mascodagama - April 17 2015 at 15:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 16:10
Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

I came to the question while thinking about how people often complain that prog rock is too cerebral and cold--that it has no soul. I wondered if there any good examples to refute that stereotype?

Maybe this is a whole other thread...


'too cerebral and cold, that it has no soul' sounds like 40 or so years of passive racism to me.
Good examples to refute that stereotype? try the 53,141 other members who joined the site because this music somehow moved them in a positive way.

From another perspective, how exactly does hip-hop have soul?


This question is about music, not race. I love Genesis and National Health as much as I love Bootsy Collins and Herbie. I'm looking for common ground between my two favorite "genres" of music. But people do ask "how can you sit through a 30 minute suite with harpsichord interludes and goofy sci-fi lyrics?" I say "have you ever heard of Funkadelic?"


Yes, I've heard Funkadelic, (and Parliament) both of which to my stubbornly pale ears sound like long winded cosmiche hippy jam w.a.n.k. (but that's probably my loss, and we do have recourse to the Grateful Dead for more of that) For the sake of clarity, the passive racism I'm referring to is that perpetuated for over 40 years by white male music journalists on both sides of the Atlantic who dogmatically insist that anything that is NOT predicated upon black American popular music styles (e.g. Motown, RnB, Soul, Funk, Gospel etc) is therefore irrelevant, anodyne, sterile, sexless and joyless white cultural art w.a.n.k. y'all? The solution of 'well stop reading it then' is not really an option as this unchallenged conditioning has been assimilated into the popular consciousness to such an extent that a (white) elephant in the room appears to be wearing some sort of 'cloaking device'
Your quest for examples of artists who straddle both genres is as laudable as it is naive: Hip Hop is from a black US urban culture. Prog ain't. Like I said before, sampling a texture does not equate to sampling the contentShocked


Edited by ExittheLemming - April 19 2015 at 04:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 16:27
Surprised at so many straight-up negative answers. If Dälek isn't prog, I don't know what is. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 17:27
Originally posted by Monadology Monadology wrote:

Surprised at so many straight-up negative answers. If Dälek isn't prog, I don't know what is. 


I agree (you don't know what Prog isWink) Dälek are certainly a very innovative and refreshing hip hop duo who manage to dispense with most of the stylistic cliches that make the genre so numbingly predictable. However, just because they assimilate influences that are perhaps unprecedented and maybe atypical for Hip Hop (industrial, noise, metal, glitch, ambient, Krautrock etc) doesn't make this avowedly Hip Hop band Prog now does it? There are loads of progressively minded Hip Hop artists who will take the genre to unprecedented places in the future that no-one ever thought plausible or possible but that wont be Prog either.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 17:28
Originally posted by Monadology Monadology wrote:

Surprised at so many straight-up negative answers. If Dälek isn't prog, I don't know what is. 
There is a number of artists who are tagged as progressive hip-hop, their audience accepts them as such and that's it. So claim that progressive hip-hop is not PA material is okay thought unneeded 'cause everybody knows that, yet claim that progressive hip-hop does not exist, it's ridiculous nonsense! Is there some prog except prog rock? Of course, and that list does not end with progressive electronics as we perceive it, i.e. Berlin School of Electronic music.
 
Originally posted by twalsh twalsh wrote:

(...) In regards to a few above comments, I don't think that samples of prog songs create progressive rap. (...)
 
I couldn't agree more. That using of some prog-rock samples is cool, but these samples per se do not constitute a progressive hip-hop; progressive hip-hop is a subgenre of hip-hop and it is born within hip-hop as a musical genre that is separated from rock music, including progressive rock.
 
Originally posted by twalsh twalsh wrote:

(...) Any definition of progressive rap would have to come from within the rap/hip-hop community.
 
Of course, and that definition already exists and, as per wiki, progressive hip hop (often tagged also as alternative hip-hop and /or experimental hip-hop) is a "hip hop other than the traditional stereotypes of rap, such as gangsta, bass, hardcore, and party rap"; well, one can say that it's nothing special, but I would like to mind you
that there is not a valid deffinition of progressive rock too (it was actually much easier to define in 60s when, for example, one flautist in a blues-rock band and some odd time signatures was made that band *progressive*).
 


Edited by Svetonio - April 18 2015 at 01:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 18:17
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

I came to the question while thinking about how people often complain that prog rock is too cerebral and cold--that it has no soul. I wondered if there any good examples to refute that stereotype?

Maybe this is a whole other thread...


'too cerebral and cold, that it has no soul' sounds like 40 or so years of passive racism to me.
Good examples to refute that stereotype? try the 53,141 other members who joined the site because this music somehow moved them in a positive way.

From another perspective, how exactly does hip-hop have soul?


This question is about music, not race. I love Genesis and National Health as much as I love Bootsy Collins and Herbie. I'm looking for common ground between my two favorite "genres" of music. But people do ask "how can you sit through a 30 minute suite with harpsichord interludes and goofy sci-fi lyrics?" I say "have you ever heard of Funkadelic?"


Yes, I've heard Funkadelic, (and Parliament) both of which to my stubbornly pale ears sound like long winded cosmiche hippy jam w.a.n.k. (but that's probably my loss, and we do have recourse to the Grateful Dead for more of that) For the sake of clarity, the passive racism I'm referring to is that perpetuated for over 40 years by white male music journalists on both sides of the Atlantic who dogmatically insist that anything that is NOT predicated opon black American popular music styles (e.g. Motown, Soul, Funk, Gospel etc) is therefore irrelevant, anodyne, sterile, sexless and joyless white cultural art w.a.n.k. y'all? The solution of 'well stop reading it then' is not really an option as this unchallenged conditioning has been assimilated into the popular consciousness to such an extent that a (white) elephant in the room appears to be wearing some sort of 'cloaking device'
Your quest for examples of artists who straddle both genres is as laudable as it is naive: Hip Hop is from a black US urban culture. Prog ain't. Like I said before, sampling a texture does not equate to sampling the contentShocked


Naive? So you're saying everybody who's posted on this thread offering examples are clueless?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 18:57
Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Hot Rat '69 Hot Rat '69 wrote:

I came to the question while thinking about how people often complain that prog rock is too cerebral and cold--that it has no soul. I wondered if there any good examples to refute that stereotype?

Maybe this is a whole other thread...


'too cerebral and cold, that it has no soul' sounds like 40 or so years of passive racism to me.
Good examples to refute that stereotype? try the 53,141 other members who joined the site because this music somehow moved them in a positive way.

From another perspective, how exactly does hip-hop have soul?


This question is about music, not race. I love Genesis and National Health as much as I love Bootsy Collins and Herbie. I'm looking for common ground between my two favorite "genres" of music. But people do ask "how can you sit through a 30 minute suite with harpsichord interludes and goofy sci-fi lyrics?" I say "have you ever heard of Funkadelic?"


Yes, I've heard Funkadelic, (and Parliament) both of which to my stubbornly pale ears sound like long winded cosmiche hippy jam w.a.n.k. (but that's probably my loss, and we do have recourse to the Grateful Dead for more of that) For the sake of clarity, the passive racism I'm referring to is that perpetuated for over 40 years by white male music journalists on both sides of the Atlantic who dogmatically insist that anything that is NOT predicated opon black American popular music styles (e.g. Motown, Soul, Funk, Gospel etc) is therefore irrelevant, anodyne, sterile, sexless and joyless white cultural art w.a.n.k. y'all? The solution of 'well stop reading it then' is not really an option as this unchallenged conditioning has been assimilated into the popular consciousness to such an extent that a (white) elephant in the room appears to be wearing some sort of 'cloaking device'
Your quest for examples of artists who straddle both genres is as laudable as it is naive: Hip Hop is from a black US urban culture. Prog ain't. Like I said before, sampling a texture does not equate to sampling the contentShocked


Naive? So you're saying everybody who's posted on this thread offering examples are clueless?


No, that would be the height of rudeness. I just think that trying to find some common ground in two genres that are so diametrically opposed/incompatible is futile. 'Naive' was inappropriate, so apologies for that
(I think 'misguided' would have been more apt)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 21:13
Originally posted by twalsh twalsh wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Not a fan of Hip Hop...If I had share my limited priggish Hip Hop collection I like these two lyrically deep Hip Hoppish tunes.  Both are from the 90's. 
  ( How do you guy post videos?  I can only post links to videosCry!
 
MC 900 ft Jesus- The City Sleeps Dead
 
..and Consolidated by ConsolidatedShocked
 
 
The later MC 900 ft. Jesus albums veered toward Hip Hop Jazz Fusion, but I can't help but like this funny tune ...Truth is Out of Style!
 
 
 

I would categorically say that i DO NOT like rap/hip-hop music.  That said, Truth Is Out of Style is pretty cool! I don't hear any prog, but I like it.  In regards to a few above comments, I don't think that samples of prog songs create progressive rap.  I'm not yet sure what that might look like.  Before assessing what progressive rap might look like, first one would have to know what non-progressive rap looks like.  And I'm simply not interested enough to do the footwork.   Any definition of progressive rap would have to come from within the rap/hip-hop community.

Except Roll The Bones; that's totally prog.Tongue
The City Sleeps - MC 900 Ft. Jesus with lyrics That is not hip hop or rap underground. Confused that's more 80's pop with vocal radio voice over. Also that 80's beat auto tune kills me. Stern Smile


Edited by Kati - April 17 2015 at 21:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 21:20
Well there could be progressive hip-hop rock. Basically just highly composed and complex music with sick beats and good lyrics. Someone that shows real compositional genius none of these bullsh*t tags given to many hip-hop artists.

But, I have yet to hear of a hip-hop artist putting that much insane detail into their music. I could say Busdriver, El-Producto, and Deltron 3030 do that a bit in their music but it's more a rarity and not the complete basis of the sound.

Still waiting for this artist that I have imagined to arise.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 21:40
Someone posted this a while ago and I really enjoyed it so I'll repost it here (because it's proggy/hip-hoppy): 
Originally posted by 12HC 12HC wrote:

hey, i'm actually coming across this post to see if any one else had this idea...I'm working on a genre I call Math-Hop (mathrock time changes done with breakbeats), for my love of prog rock and hip hop

check it out :)

https://soundcloud.com/harmchaos/optk-1

sorry for this being my first post, i'd like to check out more of this forum and find new artists to check out through you guys!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 21:48
Dark Rap / Hip-Hop Instrumental - "Violins Of Violence 2" | Deep Orchestra Strings | Aggresive Beat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCJBNKLnARk xxxxx
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2015 at 21:53
DJ Premier f. Nas, Apathy & The Berklee Symphony Orchestra - Regeneration Remix (Produced by Apathy) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgF5HvSR6Q8 xxxx
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