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Topic ClosedDid Floyd make the right decision about Barrett?

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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 10:30
I think it is unfair to be judgemental about a situation that we only have anecdotal information about. The reports of how his exit from the band was handled are indeed unflattering for all concerned, but we were not there to witness it and the reports were conflicting and almost contradictory even just a few years after the event, let alone 45 years later. 

The notion they just "forgot" to pick him up on the way to a gig and that signalled his exit is perhaps partly true but maybe it is partly apocryphal too. There were several occasions before then where he was not on stage for a gig, most notably during the (pre-Gilmour) UK tour with Hendrix, Amen Corner, The Nice and The Move where Davy O'List filled in for the "indisposed" Barrett. The idea of recruiting another guitarist was to allow Barrett to remain in the band in his fragile and unpredictable state and Barrett was still in the band after they chose not to pick him up on the way to Southampton, but as a studio member rather than a gigging member. Also, they had chosen Gilmour because he was known to and respected by Barrett to make it easier for him to remain in the band. To me this doesn't seem as callous as it does to others.

From the documented accounts of Barrett's behaviour on stage, in the studio and during their American tour it is conceivable that this period was as hard for Barrett as it was for the other members of the band. It seems that he was as much frustrated that they didn't grasp what he was doing as much as they were frustrated by what he was doing. Such as this quote from Jerry Shirley (drummer): 

Shirley explains: "When he plays a song, it's very rare that he plays it the same way each time - any song. And some songs are more off-the-wall than others. When he was with the Floyd, towards the very end, Syd came in once and started playing this tune, and played it completely different. Every chord change just kept going somewhere else and he'd keep yelling (the title), 'Have you got it yet ?' I guess then it was Roger (who kept yelling back, 'No!') who kind of realized, 'Oh, dear.'"

Again, we may never know the whole truth - we don't actually know for certain whether Barrett was kicked out or chose to leave or whether it was suggested that he should go. That Jenner and King went with Barrett and not Floyd suggests that they at least saw a future for Syd and not for Floyd after the break-up. That Waters, Gilmour and Wright were involved in the production of his two solo albums suggests that they wanted to see him succeed as a solo artist... I don't believe they did this out of regret or remorse for "forcing" him out of his own band.

What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 10:49
^Yes, we may never know the whole truth, but there are universal truths that can be applied to Barrett's case and that is what is being put forward here. Not wild speculation.
 
And don't forget, Barrett didn't cure cancer, he only produced marketable pop music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 10:50
I'll beat you to it: *sigh*
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 10:55
Your comment didn't warrant a sigh. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 10:57
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^Yes, we may never know the whole truth, but there are universal truths that can be applied to Barrett's case and that is what is being put forward here. Not wild speculation.
 
And don't forget, Barrett didn't cure cancer, he only produced marketable pop music.
 
Very true Steve.....I enjoy reading all the commentary and regardless of who is posting stuff, I am not taking it as the gospel. It's not like someone here is doing research to write a book about Syd, simply pub talk Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 12:27
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


And don't forget, Barrett didn't cure cancer, he only produced marketable pop music.

Having heard his solo albums, I would have to dispute the use of the phrase "marketable pop music".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 12:51
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


And don't forget, Barrett didn't cure cancer, he only produced marketable pop music.

Having heard his solo albums, I would have to dispute the use of the phrase "marketable pop music".
 
My thought precisely.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 12:52
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

This reminds me that Roky Erickson's been dealing with very similar issues relating to mental health and substance abuse as Syd Barrett but is not only still alive, he's been recording and touring on a semi-regular basis since the mid-1970s to the point the 13th Floor Elevators re-united recently. I'm not sure exactly how he's managed that, but with Erickson's story in mind it sounds like the "what if?" story in the OP isn't that far fetched.
Erickson's "recovery" is indeed a mystery as he's not on any medications a present. At least according to his bio pic from 2007, and updated in 2010, titled You're Gonna Miss Me.


A possible exception is that 13FE didn't tour anywhere as extensively as PF did at the same time, and only in the Southwestern United States where they're from, as a result their members probably weren't subjected to anywhere as much stress. Didn't Syd's mental health first get really bad under the band's first US tour?

I also think Erickson's family are much wealthier than Barrett's, so they had more money to pay for his care.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 13:54
If I remember correctly, when Barrett showed up at the WYWH sessions, didn't he want to record some guitar parts?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 14:35
^ And some vocals as well. Smile
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 17:04
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


And don't forget, Barrett didn't cure cancer, he only produced marketable pop music.

Having heard his solo albums, I would have to dispute the use of the phrase "marketable pop music".
I would not. None of Barrett's solo albums are what I would consider to be of "cult artist" status and have probably sold many times platinum over 40 years time, which has as much to do with who he was, as well as what music he actually produced, and that makes his makes his music quite marketable.  So that leads us to the question: What then is pop music? (with apologies to Wiki)
 
 
 The term popular music belongs to any of a number of musical genres "having wide appeal"[1][2] and typically distributed to large audiences through the music industry. It stands in contrast to both art music[3][4][5] and traditional music, which are typically disseminated academically or orally to smaller, local audiences.[3][4][5] The original application of the term is to music of the 1880s Tin Pan Alley period in the United States.[1] Although popular music sometimes is known as "pop music", the two terms are not interchangeable[citation needed]. Popular music is a generic term for music of all ages that appeals to popular tastes,[6] whereas pop music usually refers to a specific musical genre.[citation needed]
 
As Barrett's music, and Floyd's for that matter, was professionally produced, packaged and marketed to obtain maximum sales, I think it better fits this definition:
 
 According to Simon Frith pop music is produced "as a matter of enterprise not art", is "designed to appeal to everyone" and "doesn't come from any particular place or mark off any particular taste". It is "not driven by any significant ambition except profit and commercial reward ... and, in musical terms, it is essentially conservative". It is, "provided from on high (by record companies, radio programmers and concert promoters) rather than being made from below ... Pop is not a do-it-yourself music but is professionally produced and packaged".[14]
 
 
Dueling pistols at dawn. I'll even let you shoot first.
 
 
 
 


Edited by SteveG - April 09 2015 at 17:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 17:20

^Would Syd's solo music "appeal to everyone," though?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 17:21
^And who's music appeals to everyone?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 17:30
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

This reminds me that Roky Erickson's been dealing with very similar issues relating to mental health and substance abuse as Syd Barrett but is not only still alive, he's been recording and touring on a semi-regular basis since the mid-1970s to the point the 13th Floor Elevators re-united recently. I'm not sure exactly how he's managed that, but with Erickson's story in mind it sounds like the "what if?" story in the OP isn't that far fetched.
Erickson's "recovery" is indeed a mystery as he's not on any medications a present. At least according to his bio pic from 2007, and updated in 2010, titled You're Gonna Miss Me.


A possible exception is that 13FE didn't tour anywhere as extensively as PF did at the same time, and only in the Southwestern United States where they're from, as a result their members probably weren't subjected to anywhere as much stress. Didn't Syd's mental health first get really bad under the band's first US tour?

I also think Erickson's family are much wealthier than Barrett's, so they had more money to pay for his care.
I know more about Erickson's personal  life than Barrett's, as Erickson came from an upper middle class background and his father was a either an architect or a building contractor (I forget which), so he was not incredibly rich but certainly secure, at least financially, when he was a youngster.
 
As I said, I don't know Syd's background, but I suppose he had gone through the same post war problems that were prevalent in certain parts of Great Britain after the war. I'm very curious now, so I doubt I'll be ignorant of his back ground for much longer.  


Edited by SteveG - April 09 2015 at 17:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 17:31
^Just going by what Simon Firth wrote.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 17:33
^Aside from that one sentence, Firth's definition is right on the money.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 17:37
We would all like to think that prog is high art as many other music forms are. But have we pushed the envelope too far? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 18:19
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^Aside from that one sentence, Firth's definition is right on the money.
 
That's a pretty integral component of the description, though.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 18:23
^Well, if you want to be specific, he means music that is not used for religious ceremonies or government or state functions. Pop music is accessible to everyone. Santeria music is not. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2015 at 18:33
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^Well, if you want to be specific, he means music that is not used for religious ceremonies or government or state functions. Pop music is accessible to everyone. Santeria music is not. 
 
That's called moving the goalposts. LOL
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