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Topic ClosedWhy isn't prog as successful as metal as an indus

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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2015 at 07:13
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

For what it's worth, my explanations for the conundrum posed in the opening post are:

  1. Metal has a much larger do-it-yourself/underground infrastructure of independent record labels, specialist stores and concert venues than progressive rock. It certainly established one earlier as a result of picking up that ethos from the punk movement in the late 1970s. Even if metal didn't take that attitude to anywhere the same length as punk did, I think both subcultures built up that kind of grassroots network in order to avoid having to compromise with the mainstream... which is a likely cause of how the psychedelic/progressive movement's decline happened.
  2. Though they have common roots and quite a bit of overlap, metal and prog are still different music cultures with different aims that also attract somewhat different audiences. In the words of one black metal musician I correspond with and who listens to quite a bit of avant/prog on the side, metal usually doesn't attempt to work as intellectual "art music" the same way a lot of prog/psych does (and when it does is in his optic less successful at)... as he puts it, being physical/spiritual in its appeal rather than cerebral. It might result in a lower bar to clear if you look at things from one perspective, but it does explain why the respective fanbases tend to appreciate music in different ways.
  3. In my admittedly anecdotal experience, if one that's backed up with some of the sociological aspects of the genre histories I've read, both the musicians involved and the fans of metal are on average less academic and more working-class in their sociological background than the prog rock community. This is in return reflected in the different cultural norms. Kinda the same way as punk if not as overtly ideological about it, the contemporary metal scene functions as a sort of "modern folk music". Which is something you can't really say about progressive rock as a whole.

Does that make any sense? I've slept like four hours last night as a result of being at a basement concert with a handful of local punk/metal groups.
 
And let's not forget the debt owed to metal by the tattoo and body-piercing industries -- one must have both to enjoy the genre. Prog, unfortunately, did not aid the cape and codpiece industries in any appreciable way.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2015 at 05:14
For what it's worth, my explanations for the conundrum posed in the opening post are:

  1. Metal has a much larger do-it-yourself/underground infrastructure of independent record labels, specialist stores and concert venues than progressive rock. It certainly established one earlier as a result of picking up that ethos from the punk movement in the late 1970s. Even if metal didn't take that attitude to anywhere the same length as punk did, I think both subcultures built up that kind of grassroots network in order to avoid having to compromise with the mainstream... which is a likely cause of how the psychedelic/progressive movement's decline happened.
  2. Though they have common roots and quite a bit of overlap, metal and prog are still different music cultures with different aims that also attract somewhat different audiences. In the words of one black metal musician I correspond with and who listens to quite a bit of avant/prog on the side, metal usually doesn't attempt to work as intellectual "art music" the same way a lot of prog/psych does (and when it does is in his optic less successful at)... as he puts it, being physical/spiritual in its appeal rather than cerebral. It might result in a lower bar to clear if you look at things from one perspective, but it does explain why the respective fanbases tend to appreciate music in different ways.
  3. In my admittedly anecdotal experience, if one that's backed up with some of the sociological aspects of the genre histories I've read, both the musicians involved and the fans of metal are on average less academic and more working-class in their sociological background than the prog rock community. This is in return reflected in the different cultural norms. Kinda the same way as punk if not as overtly ideological about it, the contemporary metal scene functions as a sort of "modern folk music". Which is something you can't really say about progressive rock as a whole.

Does that make any sense? I've slept like four hours last night as a result of being at a basement concert with a handful of local punk/metal groups.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2015 at 12:45
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

What the hell just happened over the last couple pages? This forum's community really confuses me at times. For the most part, it's the calmest and most mature online community devoted to music discussion I've ever encountered... yet, when a flamewar erupts it's over a topic I find extremely unlikely to inspire something like this.
 
Sounds like a bunch of musicians trying to make points to each other at rehearsal.
It would make more sense there in fact.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2015 at 11:38
^Clap Or in the studio...or anytime! LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2015 at 10:19
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

What the hell just happened over the last couple pages? This forum's community really confuses me at times. For the most part, it's the calmest and most mature online community devoted to music discussion I've ever encountered... yet, when a flamewar erupts it's over a topic I find extremely unlikely to inspire something like this.
 
Sounds like a bunch of musicians trying to make points to each other at rehearsal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2015 at 08:31
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Metal is a fad. Fads are always popular but most people are way too simply pleased when it comes to music. Melodically metal is terrible
Cricky, a 40+year long fad... if only my home-made music was a fad I'd be quid's in. Shocked
Agreed. And when exactly does music stop becoming a fad, after 50 years? A hundred?  Ermm
To use one of your well worn (or worn out) responses in a sensible context: "Sigh".
That damn Baroque fad is still going on after 300 years. O, If I hear Vivaldi and his insufferable violin virtuosity one more time!
 
LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 10:41
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Metal is a fad. Fads are always popular but most people are way too simply pleased when it comes to music. Melodically metal is terrible
Cricky, a 40+year long fad... if only my home-made music was a fad I'd be quid's in. Shocked
Agreed. And when exactly does music stop becoming a fad, after 50 years? A hundred?  Ermm
To use one of your well worn (or worn out) responses in a sensible context: "Sigh".
That damn Baroque fad is still going on after 300 years. O, If I hear Vivaldi and his insufferable violin virtuosity one more time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 08:52
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Metal is a fad. Fads are always popular but most people are way too simply pleased when it comes to music. Melodically metal is terrible
Cricky, a 40+year long fad... if only my home-made music was a fad I'd be quid's in. Shocked
Agreed. And when exactly does music stop becoming a fad, after 50 years? A hundred?  Ermm
To use one of your well worn (or worn out) responses in a sensible context: "Sigh".


Edited by SteveG - March 31 2015 at 08:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 08:48
^And some are stranger than others, it seems. However, Dave is holding to his convictions which is a case of doing something rare, not strange. There's a difference.

Edited by SteveG - March 31 2015 at 08:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 08:37
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

What the hell just happened over the last couple pages? This forum's community really confuses me at times. For the most part, it's the calmest and most mature online community devoted to music discussion I've ever encountered... yet, when a flamewar erupts it's over a topic I find extremely unlikely to inspire something like this.


Jim Morrison said it best:  "People are strange"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 04:08
What the hell just happened over the last couple pages? This forum's community really confuses me at times. For the most part, it's the calmest and most mature online community devoted to music discussion I've ever encountered... yet, when a flamewar erupts it's over a topic I find extremely unlikely to inspire something like this.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 02:12
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Metal is a fad. Fads are always popular but most people are way too simply pleased when it comes to music. Melodically metal is terrible
Cricky, a 40+year long fad... if only my home-made music was a fad I'd be quid's in. Shocked
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 02:06
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

I am all for the main topic to continue, however considering that I am a nincompoop and a happy one I might add, besides stars etc, I still have no idea what Indus means or stands for on here? Confused
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As two people have already said: it's "<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Industry" - the thread title got truncated to 50 characters when David corrected the spelleng misteak - probably because he was using his phone to access the forum. Geek</span>


Yep, right on the money Dean (he says still using his useless phone).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 02:04
Allright then Dave goodbye.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 02:02
Bye Dave. All the best.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 01:57
Hi folks, no, I can confirm I've told the admins that I have left the forum and will not be posting here again. This is absolutely my last post. 

Simply put, I honestly do not think that heavy metal threads on a prog rock forum are appropriate. Obviously some people are going to have contrary views - to say the least - but I was under the impression that I'd joined a prog rock forum, as the title suggests. There are plenty of other heavy metal forums on the net. Should I go on one of them and talk about Genesis, I would expect a similar response. And deservedly so. 

Not a case of me throwing Teddy out of the pram or leaving due to one thread, it's a combination of several factors. I came here to talk about prog rock with likeminded people. 

As a PS, I do agree with Dean's comments in his last post - in the main - but I wasn't referring to musical complexity but musical *worth*. 

All the best 
Dave




Edited by Davesax1965 - March 31 2015 at 02:01

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 01:56
Metal is a fad. Fads are always popular but most people are way too simply pleased when it comes to music. Melodically metal is terrible
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2015 at 00:27
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

I am all for the main topic to continue, however considering that I am a nincompoop and a happy one I might add, besides stars etc, I still have no idea what Indus means or stands for on here? Confused
Group hug Hug
As two people have already said: it's "Industry" - the thread title got truncated to 50 characters when David corrected the spelleng misteak - probably because he was using his phone to access the forum. Geek
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2015 at 19:47
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Let's get back to the OP you guys (that is if there are any takers)

 
Gee wiz, just as this thread was starting to get interesting. Evil Smile
I am all for the main topic to continue, however considering that I am a nincompoop and a happy one I might add, besides stars etc, I still have no idea what Indus means or stands for on here? Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2015 at 18:51
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Let's get back to the OP you guys (that is if there are any takers)

 
Gee wiz, just as this thread was starting to get interesting. Evil Smile

Edited by SteveG - March 30 2015 at 18:51
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