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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Points: 13249
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Posted: April 02 2015 at 07:13 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
For what it's worth, my explanations for the conundrum posed in the opening post are:
- Metal has a much larger do-it-yourself/underground infrastructure of independent record labels, specialist stores and concert venues than progressive rock. It certainly established one earlier as a result of picking up that ethos from the punk movement in the late 1970s. Even if metal didn't take that attitude to anywhere the same length as punk did, I think both subcultures built up that kind of grassroots network in order to avoid having to compromise with the mainstream... which is a likely cause of how the psychedelic/progressive movement's decline happened.
- Though they have common roots and quite a bit of overlap, metal and prog are still different music cultures with different aims that also attract somewhat different audiences. In the words of one black metal musician I correspond with and who listens to quite a bit of avant/prog on the side, metal usually doesn't attempt to work as intellectual "art music" the same way a lot of prog/psych does (and when it does is in his optic less successful at)... as he puts it, being physical/spiritual in its appeal rather than cerebral. It might result in a lower bar to clear if you look at things from one perspective, but it does explain why the respective fanbases tend to appreciate music in different ways.
- In my admittedly anecdotal experience, if one that's backed up with some of the sociological aspects of the genre histories I've read, both the musicians involved and the fans of metal are on average less academic and more working-class in their sociological background than the prog rock community. This is in return reflected in the different cultural norms. Kinda the same way as punk if not as overtly ideological about it, the contemporary metal scene functions as a sort of "modern folk music". Which is something you can't really say about progressive rock as a whole.
Does that make any sense? I've slept like four hours last night as a result of being at a basement concert with a handful of local punk/metal groups.
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And let's not forget the debt owed to metal by the tattoo and body-piercing industries -- one must have both to enjoy the genre. Prog, unfortunately, did not aid the cape and codpiece industries in any appreciable way.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: April 02 2015 at 05:14 |
For what it's worth, my explanations for the conundrum posed in the opening post are: - Metal has a much larger do-it-yourself/underground infrastructure of independent record labels, specialist stores and concert venues than progressive rock. It certainly established one earlier as a result of picking up that ethos from the punk movement in the late 1970s. Even if metal didn't take that attitude to anywhere the same length as punk did, I think both subcultures built up that kind of grassroots network in order to avoid having to compromise with the mainstream... which is a likely cause of how the psychedelic/progressive movement's decline happened.
- Though they have common roots and quite a bit of overlap, metal and prog are still different music cultures with different aims that also attract somewhat different audiences. In the words of one black metal musician I correspond with and who listens to quite a bit of avant/prog on the side, metal usually doesn't attempt to work as intellectual "art music" the same way a lot of prog/psych does (and when it does is in his optic less successful at)... as he puts it, being physical/spiritual in its appeal rather than cerebral. It might result in a lower bar to clear if you look at things from one perspective, but it does explain why the respective fanbases tend to appreciate music in different ways.
- In my admittedly anecdotal experience, if one that's backed up with some of the sociological aspects of the genre histories I've read, both the musicians involved and the fans of metal are on average less academic and more working-class in their sociological background than the prog rock community. This is in return reflected in the different cultural norms. Kinda the same way as punk if not as overtly ideological about it, the contemporary metal scene functions as a sort of "modern folk music". Which is something you can't really say about progressive rock as a whole.
Does that make any sense? I've slept like four hours last night as a result of being at a basement concert with a handful of local punk/metal groups.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: April 01 2015 at 12:45 |
TODDLER wrote:
Toaster Mantis wrote:
What the hell just happened over the last couple pages? This forum's community really confuses me at times. For the most part, it's the calmest and most mature online community devoted to music discussion I've ever encountered... yet, when a flamewar erupts it's over a topic I find extremely unlikely to inspire something like this. |
Sounds like a bunch of musicians trying to make points to each other at rehearsal. |
It would make more sense there in fact.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: April 01 2015 at 11:38 |
^  Or in the studio...or anytime!
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: April 01 2015 at 10:19 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
What the hell just happened over the last couple pages? This forum's community really confuses me at times. For the most part, it's the calmest and most mature online community devoted to music discussion I've ever encountered... yet, when a flamewar erupts it's over a topic I find extremely unlikely to inspire something like this. |
Sounds like a bunch of musicians trying to make points to each other at rehearsal.
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: April 01 2015 at 08:31 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Agreed. And when exactly does music stop becoming a fad, after 50 years? A hundred?  To use one of your well worn (or worn out) responses in a sensible context: "Sigh".
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That damn Baroque fad is still going on after 300 years. O, If I hear Vivaldi and his insufferable violin virtuosity one more time! |
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13249
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 10:41 |
SteveG wrote:
Agreed. And when exactly does music stop becoming a fad, after 50 years? A hundred?  To use one of your well worn (or worn out) responses in a sensible context: "Sigh".
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That damn Baroque fad is still going on after 300 years. O, If I hear Vivaldi and his insufferable violin virtuosity one more time!
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 08:52 |
Agreed. And when exactly does music stop becoming a fad, after 50 years? A hundred?  To use one of your well worn (or worn out) responses in a sensible context: "Sigh".
Edited by SteveG - March 31 2015 at 08:57
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 08:48 |
^And some are stranger than others, it seems.
However, Dave is holding to his convictions which is a case of doing something rare, not strange. There's a difference.
Edited by SteveG - March 31 2015 at 08:56
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 08:37 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
What the hell just happened over the last couple pages? This forum's community really confuses me at times. For the most part, it's the calmest and most mature online community devoted to music discussion I've ever encountered... yet, when a flamewar erupts it's over a topic I find extremely unlikely to inspire something like this. |
Jim Morrison said it best: "People are strange"
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 04:08 |
What the hell just happened over the last couple pages? This forum's community really confuses me at times. For the most part, it's the calmest and most mature online community devoted to music discussion I've ever encountered... yet, when a flamewar erupts it's over a topic I find extremely unlikely to inspire something like this.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 02:12 |
dr prog wrote:
Metal is a fad. Fads are always popular but most people are way too simply pleased when it comes to music. Melodically metal is terrible |
Cricky, a 40+year long fad... if only my home-made music was a fad I'd be quid's in. 
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What?
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 02:06 |
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
I am all for the main topic to continue, however considering that I am a nincompoop and a happy one I might add, besides stars etc, I still have no idea what Indus means or stands for on here?  Group hug  |
As two people have already said: it's "<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Indus try" - the thread title got truncated to 50 characters when David corrected the spelleng misteak - probably because he was using his phone to access the forum.  </span> | Yep, right on the money Dean (he says still using his useless phone).
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 02:04 |
Allright then Dave goodbye.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 02:02 |
Bye Dave. All the best.
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What?
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 01:57 |
Hi folks, no, I can confirm I've told the admins that I have left the forum and will not be posting here again. This is absolutely my last post.
Simply put, I honestly do not think that heavy metal threads on a prog rock forum are appropriate. Obviously some people are going to have contrary views - to say the least - but I was under the impression that I'd joined a prog rock forum, as the title suggests. There are plenty of other heavy metal forums on the net. Should I go on one of them and talk about Genesis, I would expect a similar response. And deservedly so.
Not a case of me throwing Teddy out of the pram or leaving due to one thread, it's a combination of several factors. I came here to talk about prog rock with likeminded people.
As a PS, I do agree with Dean's comments in his last post - in the main - but I wasn't referring to musical complexity but musical *worth*.
All the best
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 31 2015 at 02:01
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2528
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 01:56 |
Metal is a fad. Fads are always popular but most people are way too simply pleased when it comes to music. Melodically metal is terrible
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 31 2015 at 00:27 |
Kati wrote:
I am all for the main topic to continue, however considering that I am a nincompoop and a happy one I might add, besides stars etc, I still have no idea what Indus means or stands for on here?  Group hug  |
As two people have already said: it's " Industry" - the thread title got truncated to 50 characters when David corrected the spelleng misteak - probably because he was using his phone to access the forum. 
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What?
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 19:47 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 18:51 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Let's get back to the OP you guys (that is if there are any takers)
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Gee wiz, just as this thread was starting to get interesting.
Edited by SteveG - March 30 2015 at 18:51
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