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Davesax1965 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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 Posted: March 30 2015 at 08:57 |
Progressive rock was originally thought of as being a genre which stretched musicians - taking them away from a three minute 12 bar progression to something more complicated. It demanded higher levels of musicianship from the players and more attention from the audience. There was supposed to be some musical worth, individuality and hence integrity to it - music for the sake of art. There is good prog, there is bad prog but it should, at the end of the day, stem from an honest attempt to create something different and of musical worth which then finds its' own level. The audience like it - understand it - or they don't. Music first, commerciality second.
Heavy Metal is pop music for those who think they're being left field. All they're doing is following sheep in a different field, except the sheep have perms, spandex trousers and studded wristbands.
So Blackie Lawless has a codpiece which shoots 45 foot flames. Right. Can't play, though, can he ? Doesn't produce anything of musical worth, does he ? Just the same old same old, same boring themes, same as everyone else, let's all get together in a big group, wave a few pentagrams around, get some spiky guitars out and play at 140 DB ?
I am astonished that people come on a prog rock site and can't differentiate between childish "entertainment" and proper music done by musicians. Proper music is not about "entertainment" or gimmickry or slavish adherence to a set of rules. It is about musical creativity and integrity. You may think that playing some heavy metal guitar solo is talented: it's not. Any idiot can just play simple arpeggios fast. The problem is that there is no thought behind it, zero creativity. You, dear reader, may not be able to do it, but that doesn't mean it's good, even when you CAN do it.
As for "prog metal", same criticism. It still relies on an adherence to genre, gimmickry and marketing. Anything with those underlying principles is musically worthless: you may be entertained, you may enjoy the spectacle. But it essentially is just pop music designed to appeal to those who just want to be entertained, rather than those who really want to listen and understand music.
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 09:19
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:19 |
 Davesax1965 wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I am a 49 year old musician....
Heavy metal is sh*te. Anyone who listens to it needs to (a) get a haircut (b) get a life and (c) learn to think for themselves. Take your spandex trousers, copies of Kerrang, Metal Hammer and all your Myofist, Budgie, Twisted Sister albums and put them on a lovely big bonfire. |
...and get off my lawn!!
Oh dear.
I'm a 57.99452 year old not-a-musician and I love metal. I have a life, can think for myself and wear my hair long because I bloody well can.
However, other than that your rant is fine and I have no issue with it. If it had been more contemporary and not 35 years behind the times I may have taken exception, but since it is archaic and dates from a time when I too had little interest in Metal I can view it as a minor amusement.
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What?
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:21 |
Get a haircut, sonny. :-) No, seriously. Listen to whatever you want, heavy metal included, but this is a prog rock site. Not prog rock ? On the bonfire. All those lovely rivulets of melting vinyl have the same musical worth as the albums AND you've kept warm as well. You could even toast some pentagram shaped marshmallows.
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 09:26
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:27 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
Get a haircut, sonny. :-)No, seriously. Listen to whatever you want, heavy metal included, but this is a prog rock site. |
Davesax, I have heard of prog metal and do like some a lot but not all. However I am 86 years old and I have never heard of Indus, what is that? Hugs   but hold on let me grab my teeth  ha much better, more hugs
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:29 |
Hi Kati, actually, I'm 102 and am stone deaf due to listening to too much loud music in the 1930's.
Can I use your teeth when you've finished with them ? :-)
The reason why heavy metal is more commercially successful than prog rock is that prog, at its' best, is "musicians' music". It's not commercial, it takes more thought and musical appreciation to get into, there is no uniform and it requires people to *think*, which they don't generally like doing.
Heavy metal is anti-fashion statement which can be easily picked up. It was, at one point, conversely, fashionable to be unfashionable. You can easily spot someone else suffering from Heavy Metal due to the obligatory tattoos, piercings, ludicrous pantaloons et al which the adherent MUST wear and go off and be tragic in the company of other like minded pop music (by another name) fans. Hence the popularity, it requires no thought and can be easily bought into.
Prog rock has survived since the late 60's as it has some worth - Heavy metal, son of glam rock, will probably still be going 30-40 years on, but because a few people can make money from it. Not because it has any musical worth.
I have no problem with people listening to heavy metal in the comfort of their own front rooms or anywhere else, but coming on what's supposed to be a prog rock site and extolling the virtues of it is inappropriate. What next ? Prog disco ? It is NOT music for musicians or wannabe musicians. It is music for the easily fooled, who think that playing an arpeggio at 240+ beats per minute constitutes some form of musical ability.
As for Dean saying that my post was 35 years out of date - I look at pics from the mid 80's and pics from Heavy Metal fans from today: not much has changed. Otherwise it wouldn't be heavy metal, would it, Dean ?
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 09:40
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NutterAlert
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 07 2005
Location: In transition
Status: Offline
Points: 2808
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:48 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
So Blackie Lawless has a codpiece which shoots 45 foot flames.
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Impressive. Compensating for a small nob no doubt! Would have loved to see the band's risk assessment for that one...
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:52 |
I'm sure I heard that it blew back one fateful night....
In the interim....... woo hoo hoooo haaaaaaaaaaaaa ahemmmmmm - "Heavy Metal, sir ? "
To be fair, they DID have the album art professionally re-done for later issues of the album. Guess what ? Motorcycle. Axe. Flames. Anyone for a cliche ?
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 10:07
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:52 |
NutterAlert wrote:
Davesax1965 wrote:
So Blackie Lawless has a codpiece which shoots 45 foot flames.
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Impressive. Compensating for a small nob no doubt! Would have loved to see the band's risk assessment for that one... |
I thought the only person who wore a codpiece was Ian Anderson, I have much to learn you see  hugs
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:54 |
Or perhaps Sir prefers...... this ???
Bet "Metal Warriors" is worth a listen. Wonder what that's all about, eh ?
"This is your new cell mate..... "
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 10:05
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:56 |
I'll have one of these, thank you.
Although there isn't a spiky guitar, badly drawn Harley, naked "chick" or panto haircut on it. Bit more grown up, I think. And less...... suspect. ;-)
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 10:02 |
One for the lay-deez here: Blackie Lawless's flaming codpiece. Note spiky BC Rich guitar (which play like crap) - silly girly hair and makeup, SPANDEX PANTS and STUDDED BELT - spot the actual "music" in this photo and win today's star prize.
Or just ram all the albums into a convenient 40 gallon oil drum, add petrol and a flaming rag. And actually make the effort to listen to REAL music. I know it hurts. Worth it in the end.
PS Plug the guitar in, Blackie, that's Lesson One.
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 10:04
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 10:38 |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 10:45 |
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Those metal people are so ridiculous. Not like real musicians that dress up like flowers or foxes.
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Prog Sothoth
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 03 2011
Location: MA
Status: Offline
Points: 1940
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 10:46 |
^^Stop trolling the thread.
You made your statement many posts ago.
Now it's just looking pathetic.
Edited by Prog Sothoth - March 30 2015 at 10:47
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 10:51 |
Ah, sorry, I take it you're a member of the Spandex Police ?
As for the "flowers and foxes" - fair comment, really. I wonder why prog rock suddenly lost its' mass market appeal ? ;-)
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 10:54
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 43654
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 11:01 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
Ah, sorry, I take it you're a member of the Spandex Police ?
As for the "flowers and foxes" - fair comment, really. I wonder why prog rock suddenly lost its' mass market appeal ? ;-) |
now that you've stated your hate plenty, you can stop, just go away.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 11:03 |
Oh yes, don't want to upset the heavy metal kiddies now..... on a prog rock forum.
Actually, if there was some way of deleting my profile, I would. Perhaps the admins would like to help ??? Kill me now.... pleeeeeease.
Seriously. ;-)
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 11:06
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 43654
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 11:06 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
Actually, Cristi, I'll go one better than that and actually resign from the forum. :-) |
I meant let this thread go, I get it you hate the metal genre, which is OK, but let it go, don't be so full of spite. I wasn't telling you to leave the forum.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 11:13 |
I changed the post in the interim BUT I will be leaving the forum.
If the admins would like to delete my profile, I'd be grateful if they did. I can't see a way of doing it from my profile settings.
To be quite honest with you, I'd prefer to be on a prog rock forum where people are actually into the music, rather than a forum which also incorporates..... heavy metal. I do not *hate* heavy metal. But I don't consider it appropriate to have heavy metallers coming on a forum which is about different music and defending themselves.
I also think that everything I've said is actually true.
So if the admins would kindly delete the profile, I would be VERY grateful. Thank you and goodnight, Spandex Fans.
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 11:14 |
Padraic wrote:
Those metal people are so ridiculous. Not like real musicians that dress up like flowers or foxes.
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Why isn't prog as successful as metal as an indus
