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Davesax1965 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Points: 2839
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 Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:54 |
Or perhaps Sir prefers...... this ???
Bet "Metal Warriors" is worth a listen. Wonder what that's all about, eh ?
"This is your new cell mate..... "
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 10:05
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:52 |
 NutterAlert wrote:
Davesax1965 wrote:
So Blackie Lawless has a codpiece which shoots 45 foot flames.
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Impressive. Compensating for a small nob no doubt! Would have loved to see the band's risk assessment for that one... |
I thought the only person who wore a codpiece was Ian Anderson, I have much to learn you see  hugs 
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:52 |
I'm sure I heard that it blew back one fateful night....
In the interim....... woo hoo hoooo haaaaaaaaaaaaa ahemmmmmm - "Heavy Metal, sir ? "
To be fair, they DID have the album art professionally re-done for later issues of the album. Guess what ? Motorcycle. Axe. Flames. Anyone for a cliche ?
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 10:07
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NutterAlert
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 07 2005
Location: In transition
Status: Offline
Points: 2808
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:48 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
So Blackie Lawless has a codpiece which shoots 45 foot flames.
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Impressive. Compensating for a small nob no doubt! Would have loved to see the band's risk assessment for that one...
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:29 |
Hi Kati, actually, I'm 102 and am stone deaf due to listening to too much loud music in the 1930's.
Can I use your teeth when you've finished with them ? :-)
The reason why heavy metal is more commercially successful than prog rock is that prog, at its' best, is "musicians' music". It's not commercial, it takes more thought and musical appreciation to get into, there is no uniform and it requires people to *think*, which they don't generally like doing.
Heavy metal is anti-fashion statement which can be easily picked up. It was, at one point, conversely, fashionable to be unfashionable. You can easily spot someone else suffering from Heavy Metal due to the obligatory tattoos, piercings, ludicrous pantaloons et al which the adherent MUST wear and go off and be tragic in the company of other like minded pop music (by another name) fans. Hence the popularity, it requires no thought and can be easily bought into.
Prog rock has survived since the late 60's as it has some worth - Heavy metal, son of glam rock, will probably still be going 30-40 years on, but because a few people can make money from it. Not because it has any musical worth.
I have no problem with people listening to heavy metal in the comfort of their own front rooms or anywhere else, but coming on what's supposed to be a prog rock site and extolling the virtues of it is inappropriate. What next ? Prog disco ? It is NOT music for musicians or wannabe musicians. It is music for the easily fooled, who think that playing an arpeggio at 240+ beats per minute constitutes some form of musical ability.
As for Dean saying that my post was 35 years out of date - I look at pics from the mid 80's and pics from Heavy Metal fans from today: not much has changed. Otherwise it wouldn't be heavy metal, would it, Dean ?
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 09:40
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:27 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
Get a haircut, sonny. :-)No, seriously. Listen to whatever you want, heavy metal included, but this is a prog rock site. |
Davesax, I have heard of prog metal and do like some a lot but not all. However I am 86 years old and I have never heard of Indus, what is that? Hugs  but hold on let me grab my teeth  ha much better, more hugs
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:21 |
Get a haircut, sonny. :-) No, seriously. Listen to whatever you want, heavy metal included, but this is a prog rock site. Not prog rock ? On the bonfire. All those lovely rivulets of melting vinyl have the same musical worth as the albums AND you've kept warm as well. You could even toast some pentagram shaped marshmallows.
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 09:26
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 09:19 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I am a 49 year old musician....
Heavy metal is sh*te. Anyone who listens to it needs to (a) get a haircut (b) get a life and (c) learn to think for themselves. Take your spandex trousers, copies of Kerrang, Metal Hammer and all your Myofist, Budgie, Twisted Sister albums and put them on a lovely big bonfire. |
...and get off my lawn!!
Oh dear.
I'm a 57.99452 year old not-a-musician and I love metal. I have a life, can think for myself and wear my hair long because I bloody well can.
However, other than that your rant is fine and I have no issue with it. If it had been more contemporary and not 35 years behind the times I may have taken exception, but since it is archaic and dates from a time when I too had little interest in Metal I can view it as a minor amusement.
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What?
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 08:57 |
Progressive rock was originally thought of as being a genre which stretched musicians - taking them away from a three minute 12 bar progression to something more complicated. It demanded higher levels of musicianship from the players and more attention from the audience. There was supposed to be some musical worth, individuality and hence integrity to it - music for the sake of art. There is good prog, there is bad prog but it should, at the end of the day, stem from an honest attempt to create something different and of musical worth which then finds its' own level. The audience like it - understand it - or they don't. Music first, commerciality second.
Heavy Metal is pop music for those who think they're being left field. All they're doing is following sheep in a different field, except the sheep have perms, spandex trousers and studded wristbands.
So Blackie Lawless has a codpiece which shoots 45 foot flames. Right. Can't play, though, can he ? Doesn't produce anything of musical worth, does he ? Just the same old same old, same boring themes, same as everyone else, let's all get together in a big group, wave a few pentagrams around, get some spiky guitars out and play at 140 DB ?
I am astonished that people come on a prog rock site and can't differentiate between childish "entertainment" and proper music done by musicians. Proper music is not about "entertainment" or gimmickry or slavish adherence to a set of rules. It is about musical creativity and integrity. You may think that playing some heavy metal guitar solo is talented: it's not. Any idiot can just play simple arpeggios fast. The problem is that there is no thought behind it, zero creativity. You, dear reader, may not be able to do it, but that doesn't mean it's good, even when you CAN do it.
As for "prog metal", same criticism. It still relies on an adherence to genre, gimmickry and marketing. Anything with those underlying principles is musically worthless: you may be entertained, you may enjoy the spectacle. But it essentially is just pop music designed to appeal to those who just want to be entertained, rather than those who really want to listen and understand music.
Edited by Davesax1965 - March 30 2015 at 09:19
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 08:50 |
Ladies and gentlemen, I am a 49 year old musician. I have listened to God knows how many thousand albums. I have been around since "heavy rock" became "heavy metal", and that was simply because heavy rock musicians who weren't good enough to make it realised that adding a pantomimetic touch of drama pulled crowds in. They were going to see the spectacle and not the music or musicianship.
I have heard tons of heavy metal albums, from some of the first stuff to the later c r a p which was issued under the NWOBHM bandwaggon and unlike some of the people posting here, I understand it from a musical point of view. A great deal - 95% of heavy metal - relies on a boring adherence to repetitive arpeggios and simplistic chord progressions which have little bearing to proper music or musicianship.
Hence sh*te.
I am not regurgitating anything and it seems a bit off to turn around and say - with no evidence pro or con - to say that I haven't listened to any. I have sat through a lot of badly played, tedious marketing exercises designed to entertain the gullible and remove them of their money - at the lowest possible level. So I'll say it again. Heavy metal is sh*te. Anyone who listens to it needs to (a) get a haircut (b) get a life and (c) learn to think for themselves. Take your spandex trousers, copies of Kerrang, Metal Hammer and all your Myofist, Budgie, Twisted Sister albums and put them on a lovely big bonfire. Then sit back, listen to some REAL music and actually think, listen and become a real human being instead of a cardboard cutout.
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 01:31 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Most of the 1970s metal bands, for that matter also Venom and Slayer, meant the Satanic themes for entertainment or at best for metaphor. I think Mercyful Fate then started taking occult spirituality seriously which is where the 1990s black/death metal picked it up from. (Arckanum, Deicide, Dissection, Mayhem, Morbid Angel etc.)
MF might have been the exception rather than the rule back in the 1980s, but it's different now and artists who take esoteric/occult/pagan/Satanic religion very seriously are an integral part of the metal world's cultural landscape. However misguided you might find that entire kettle of fish. (hey, at least it's not Nazi Occultism...)
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I am indifferent about all cult things, to me it's a just a gimmick just as Comic-on.  Hey whatever you are into it's cool by me as long as it does not bully or physically hurt anyone.
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 01:25 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
I'm pretty sure Pat was referring to the misspelled thread title (which I've just corrected) 
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Nothing is true till the fat lady sings, ok ok now pls bring back Heston Blumenthal, that pic of him wearing a tiny pink bikini top while barbecuing..... jajaja yep ahum oui da si sim that pic is priceless!  hugs
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: March 30 2015 at 01:19 |
Padraic wrote:
Why isn't prog as successful as metal
Why isn't prog as successful as metal
Why isn't prog as successful as metal
Why isn't prog as successful as metal
Why isn't prog as successful as metal
Why isn't prog as successful as metal
Sorry. Had to get that off my chest. Carry on.
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lol you naughty puppy!
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Posted: March 29 2015 at 20:54 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
People still want me to post the link to that article about Satanism and the occult's relations to crime when I find it? I think that at this point, it's so off-topic it probably just deserves its own thread perhaps in the general discussion board instead...
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It definitely does as a point of interest.
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104
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Posted: March 29 2015 at 09:52 |
I'm pretty sure Pat was referring to the misspelled thread title (which I've just corrected)
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17773
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Posted: March 29 2015 at 09:43 |
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Tapfret wrote:
Because popularity is a disease and prog is an effective vaccine...and metal is an STD. |
Remember that there is no light without dark. Some day when everyone catches up to prog there will be prog squared :) ...
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Only in a planet going around a star/sun! Or equivalent.
In space, there is no "light" per se, and you only see the flicker of the distance stars or galaxies, if that in some places.
So, the whole "light" thing is almost a complete illusion for the mind, which creates a dichotomy that is not necessary! But you definitely would know "light" if you had been travelling through the dark for a long time, I'm sure!
BTW, a blind friend we had used to joke about how we were so clumsy, and he used to black-wire telephones!
Edited by moshkito - March 29 2015 at 09:46
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: March 29 2015 at 06:39 |
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People still want me to post the link to that article about Satanism and the occult's relations to crime when I find it? I think that at this point, it's so off-topic it probably just deserves its own thread perhaps in the general discussion board instead...
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Bigseal
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 17 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 28
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Posted: March 28 2015 at 15:05 |
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I think Tapfret's ideas are spot on eventually audiences must progress and then they find Prog
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https://www.facebook.com/davy.olist
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: March 28 2015 at 13:02 |
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Most of the 1970s metal bands, for that matter also Venom and Slayer, meant the Satanic themes for entertainment or at best for metaphor. I think Mercyful Fate then started taking occult spirituality seriously which is where the 1990s black/death metal picked it up from. (Arckanum, Deicide, Dissection, Mayhem, Morbid Angel etc.)
MF might have been the exception rather than the rule back in the 1980s, but it's different now and artists who take esoteric/occult/pagan/Satanic religion very seriously are an integral part of the metal world's cultural landscape. However misguided you might find that entire kettle of fish. (hey, at least it's not Nazi Occultism...)
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20616
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Posted: March 28 2015 at 10:12 |
rogerthat wrote:
Toaster Mantis wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Oh, for God's sake! Do members here really believe that the occult vibe of groups like Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult and crazy old Ozzy is anything more than a way to sell albums? Perhaps it's because the recording industry is now a shadow of it's former self that causes some members to forget the real agenda behind the veil of Satanism and the occult: Business! Business! Business! (And business!) |
Black Sabbath were just doing it for fun, but starting with my countrymen Mercyful Fate and onwards there have been plenty of metal artists who genuinely follow occult religions. This is a photo of MF frontman King Diamond with the late Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan:
I can come with several other examples, to start with a lot of the Swedish black metal scene (Arckanum, Dissection, Watain) are informed by and practice Gnostic religion on which Arckanum's frontman Johan "Shamaatae" Lahger is something of a major academic authority here in Europe.
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If I am not mistaken, Dio himself took Satanism pretty seriously or at least did a pretty good job of pretending to. It may have been part of the reason for the frequent bouts of discords between him and the rest of Sabbath.
Re metal and punk, I am not sure if that was really a correction to psych/prog, but yes, it seems fair to say it was a reaction to it. |
I'm sorry Roger but you are mistaken. My professional back ground is in metal music and the many artists big and small that fit into that genre. I usually veer away from this subject because it inevitably requires name dropping which would be both irresponsible and unprofessional on my part. As Ronnie James Dio is no longer with us, I can tell you from personal experience that he was one of the warmest individuals that I've ever that the pleasure of meeting in the entire metal genre, and created lyrics that were centered on fantasy "dragons and demons" motifs while in Rainbow before having to come up with darker material when he joined Sabbath. He was no fan of Satan as far as I know and his "devil's horns" hand gesture was simply based on an old world Italian curse or symbol that represented something he did not believe in called the "malocchio" or the evil eye in English. Again, Dio was all about fan entertainment. Not Satan or the occult.
Edited by SteveG - March 28 2015 at 10:18
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Why isn't prog as successful as metal as an indus
