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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Online
Points: 13053
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 08:12 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Satanism - everyone else's religion apart from your own...
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God and Satan have been the blame for humanity's reprehensible behavior for millennia. The stark fact is humanity needs neither to act like atrocious tw*ts, they are simply handy abstractions to hang their assholiness upon.
Edited by The Dark Elf - March 27 2015 at 08:12
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 08:23 |
Somehow, the metallers, despite of an iconography (what you can like or not), are far more cool than proggers.
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Bigseal
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 17 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 28
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 08:35 |
I dunno know, you can incorporate various metal in Prog to make it cooler
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https://www.facebook.com/davy.olist
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Points: 3126
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 08:40 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Regarding the question of crimes related to Satanism and the occult, I found an interesting article about the subject a while ago but unfortunately I can't locate it right now. Anyone interested in it?
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I am.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 08:45 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
Satanism - everyone else's religion apart from your own...
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God and Satan have been the blame for humanity's reprehensible behavior for millennia. The stark fact is humanity needs neither to act like atrocious tw*ts, they are simply handy abstractions to hang their assholiness upon.
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I much prefer my shorter version but I like your use of assholiness as an unwitting pun
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Online
Points: 13053
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 08:49 |
Nothing I write is done unwittingly.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 08:52 |
Oh, for God's sake! Do members here really believe that the occult vibe of groups like Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult and crazy old Ozzy is anything more than a way to sell albums? Perhaps it's because the recording industry is now a shadow of it's former self that causes some members to forget the real agenda behind the veil of Satanism and the occult: Business! Business! Business! (And business!)
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ExittheLemming
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Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
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Points: 11415
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 09:01 |
^ that's exactly what Dark Elf and myself have just articulated i.e. the expedient use of spirituality to legitimise indefensible 'w**kiness aforethought' which clearly does encompass the marketing of purportedly rebellious rawk music. Speaking of unwitting irony, the for God's sake exclamation gave me a chuckle
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The Dark Elf
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Points: 13053
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 09:03 |
SteveG wrote:
Oh, for God's sake! Do members here really believe that the occult vibe of groups like Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult and crazy old Ozzy is anything more than a way to sell albums? Perhaps it's because the recording industry is now a shadow of it's former self that causes some members to forget the real agenda behind the veil of Satanism and the occult: Business! Business! Business! (And business!) |
I don't really think anyone here has displayed that kind of naiveté, Steve. Of course it's business, and rebellious rock always sells to angsty teenagers (it has since Elvis first swiveled his satanic hips). But metal bands seem to be stuck on the same business model that was trite by the late 70s. I guess if the model still sells, might as well stick with it.
Edited by The Dark Elf - March 27 2015 at 09:05
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 09:16 |
^Whew! That's a relief! I was beginning to think I was surrounded by socialists until I realized that I wasn't in college any more. And yes, commodities like occult tinged metal from Iron Maiden to Slayer still sell, if a bit less, and always will.
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TODDLER
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 09:21 |
Forgive me for bringing the subject matter of cults into this thread. I played for these audiences many years and my observation is that teenagers became obsessed with the lyricism in Metal first and that led them to a interest in the occult. Not much different than my uncles in the early 1930's , pointing their fingers at each other , pretending they were guns, and playing the pretend role of Al Capone. I am also specifically pointing out that this kind of reaction in teenagers regarding Metal was vast in the Eastern United States when I traveled. I do know for a fact that there were other cult related killings in Europe, but insist on basing my information solely on my experience in the U.S. and regret coming across as a "know it all" , if in fact I have. This vastness of cult related killings with all of it's news media coverage is a reality that would have never existed in Prog and that being one of the reasons why Metal has a reputation more vast than Prog could ever have.
Album covers by WASP caused friction in society when the connection between the kid's interest in Metal and "so called" commands from Metal songs to kill someone were discovered. Generally..it was based around kids forming their own Satan cults and meeting in secret places. News reports and witnesses testimonies in the 80's and 90's defined the word confusion. For example, a victim's statement re-stated by a murderer after they were incarcerated. Things like..."Well the victim professed to sit upon the right hand side of Satan, rather than the left, shows that either the quotes were wrong, the victim was drugged or drunk, or had little real knowledge of demonology or what the hell they were doing.
The majority of these cult killings had little or nothing at all to do with the "Church Of Satan" or Satanism itself. It was all about revolting against the belief system within the "Church Of Satan". As stated many times in the past, the "Church Of Satan" had nothing to do with your spirit, Judeo-Christian concepts, demons or Gods. Many Satan cults formed by youths revolved around raising the dead, (so to speak) and there is no doubt that a wealthy and more organized Satan worshippers sect revolved around the same practices. They too...(in many cases) revolted against any organized cult where these concepts or belief's were forbidden. Regarding sacrifice of humans, these procedures were carefully planned out until a kid got sloppy revealing evidence to the police. Normally this wouldn't occur on a vast level, (as it did with the "Satanic Panic" conspiracy), until the youth were influenced by the lyricism of Metal .Usually if a child went missing and the police suspected foul play within a cult, the child would hardly ever surface again and the evidence leading to a cult was largely circumstantial due to the caution that a cult applied when sacrificing a human. That particular caution is based on evidence left behind...which there is usually none powerful enough to convict anyone, as a cult is so very careful to not leave marks on a body that is discovered.
Edited by TODDLER - March 27 2015 at 09:24
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TODDLER
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 09:30 |
SteveG wrote:
Oh, for God's sake! Do members here really believe that the occult vibe of groups like Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult and crazy old Ozzy is anything more than a way to sell albums? Perhaps it's because the recording industry is now a shadow of it's former self that causes some members to forget the real agenda behind the veil of Satanism and the occult: Business! Business! Business! (And business!) |
Of course it was business! However...do you think that kids in the 80's and 90's thought about that? Because the answer is mostly no and the evidence that they were unaware or could care less was submitted to me when I played for these kinds of audiences. The recording industry knows that all too well and it's a means of exploiting the youth so that the "baby boomer" parents would hand out money for their kids. The kids may have bought the albums discreetly because it may have been forbidden by their parents, but the sales were skyrocketing and sh-t didn't hit the fan until kids turned up dead with pentagrams carved in their foreheads.
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TODDLER
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Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 09:52 |
In the 80's..I had friends in Metal bands who were trying desperately to write something demented and disturbing. They were trying a bit too hard to please the record company. There is absolutely nothing wrong with writing a dark piece with disturbing lyrics because maybe the person listening to it might think..."Wow, I didn't realize how bad witchcraft is and perhaps I will steer clear of it" Unfortunately children who are abused by their parents reach out for the dark lyricism and as a track record, follow the lyrics as a command in their personal life. The record companies didn't think about that did they? As I said before, the only problem with justice is Senator Gore's wife rubbing shoulders with the record executives and not supporting all important issues existing at the time of the "Satanic Panic" era. Apparently it wasn't in her best interest to bring justice to the record companies other than the conclusion of using album stickers...which was worse because it just made kids even more curious. Senator Gore was a huge Jethro Tull fan..so evidently he must have understood a lot more than he revealed which was not in his best interest...which also explains why the majority of the senate disagreed with Frank Zappa who was trying to use logic and personally disliked the government getting involved to begin with when Country songs revealed incest and murder over a sexual dispute in the lyrics and it just wasn't being addressed at all. ...As if to say that it was completely okay for the Country singer to continue producing lyrics on the subject, but it wasn't okay for Metal groups to do the same. That's not justice for the sake of justice, but justice for one genre of music to make yourself, the politician look important in the eyes of the older generations.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 10:04 |
TODDLER wrote:
I do know for a fact that there were other cult related killings in Europe |
And these incontrovertible facts have been relayed to the relevant law enforcement agencies in Europe so the perpetrators of such indefensible acts cannot conceivably be still at large right?
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 10:17 |
^As Don Corleone once said "it wasn't personal. It was just business."
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
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Points: 15242
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 10:34 |
I would like to add that metal attracts a younger audience for the most part and that is the demographic that actually forks out more money to buy music. Metal can be complex of course but most of it is fairly accessible and constructed for a younger audience. Why is bubblegum pop more successful than metal? Because it is even more attractive to an even younger audience whose parents spoil their kids with whatever their hearts desire. On the fllip side why is prog more successful than classical? Or is it? Well, seems like it is, because it has enough crossover appeal i guess. Oh, yeah and metal will always be more successful because of those armadillos in Spinal Tap's spandex
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20604
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 10:40 |
^
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
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Points: 3126
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 10:47 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
TODDLER wrote:
I do know for a fact that there were other cult related killings in Europe |
And these incontrovertible facts have been relayed to the relevant law enforcement agencies in Europe so the perpetrators of such indefensible acts cannot conceivably be still at large right?
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I certainly hope so, unlike certain cult killings in New Jersey where one or two perpetrators are convicted and the rest involved are not.
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8581
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 11:02 |
Because popularity is a disease and prog is an effective vaccine...and metal is an STD.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: March 27 2015 at 11:31 |
SteveG wrote:
Oh, for God's sake! Do members here really believe that the occult vibe of groups like Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult and crazy old Ozzy is anything more than a way to sell albums? Perhaps it's because the recording industry is now a shadow of it's former self that causes some members to forget the real agenda behind the veil of Satanism and the occult: Business! Business! Business! (And business!) | Black Sabbath were just doing it for fun, but starting with my countrymen Mercyful Fate and onwards there have been plenty of metal artists who genuinely follow occult religions. This is a photo of MF frontman King Diamond with the late Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan: I can come with several other examples, to start with a lot of the Swedish black metal scene ( Arckanum, Dissection, Watain) are informed by and practice Gnostic religion on which Arckanum's frontman Johan "Shamaatae" Lahger is something of a major academic authority here in Europe.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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