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ProgSword 
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 Topic: I just don't understand Opeth's last two albums.
Posted: March 15 2015 at 02:41 |
What am I missing? Heritage was decently received here on PA, and Pale Communion has a surprisingly high rating. This is in stark contrast to the poor reception of the metal community (although they hate these albums for shallow reasons, but I still find myself in their camp).
I just don't think Åkerfeldt's strong suit is prog. When I heard Heritage was going to be a straight prog album, I was ecstatic, and I hated how all of Opeth's metal fans basically condemned it before even listening (just because it has "no balls" or something ridiculous). After all, I consider myself a prog fan before a metalhead. But then, I jumped right on the hate bandwagon after listening, because Heritage was just boring as sin. Most of the music feels dry and uninspiring. I understand this is the album Åkerfeldt's wanted to write his whole life, but it reminds me of the musical equivalent to poor fanfiction. Pale Communion felt like an extension of this.
I will say though, I count Folklore and River as part of my top five Opeth songs. If both albums showed the promise of their respective standout tracks, I would fully endorse this prog Opeth over their metal past. But it just feels to me like Åkerfeldt's best song writing comes out when he writes metal with prog elements. Anything else comes off like some King Crimson rejected material.
But maybe I just don't get it. I had similar feelings about Tales of Topgraphic Oceans, but at least that sounded original from the get go.
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ole-the-first
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Posted: March 15 2015 at 04:35 |
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I think that Heritage was one of the best Åkerfeldt's works, it's a quintessence of Opeth's style and atmosphere, but without death growls. I don't think it was a plain 70's styled prog, it was really an Opeth album.
Pale Communion, on the other hand, was a disappointment to me, it's surely too keen on 70's prog, and also borrows too much sound and atmosphere from 'Watershed'. The only albums I would rate lower than Pale Communion are My Arms Your Hearse and Still Life (yes, I believe Still Life is way too overrated here).
Edited by ole-the-first - March 15 2015 at 04:35
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sleeper
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Posted: March 15 2015 at 05:19 |
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First off, I disagree with you about the metal commuinity completely hating on the two most recent Opeth albums, when I saw them last year there were a lot of people that were very excited when they started to play Cusp of Eternity, which went down really well.
I don't particualrly like Heritage, it's a mish-mash of ideas lacking in any real coherance resulting in noodly, meandering affairs that don't really do much. Pale Communion takes similar ideas but applies much more focus to the composition and development of said ideas, with the result being their best album since Blackwater Park.
It's been a damn long time since they were last this good.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Raff
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Posted: March 15 2015 at 05:45 |
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I don't hang around metal forums, so I wouldn't know anything about the reception the metal community gave to those two albums. What I know is that I found Heritage terminally boring, and Pale Communion rather unimpressive on my first and only listen. I definitely liked Opeth much better when they still had a strong metal component to their music - and that includes the growls.
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Rivertree
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Posted: March 15 2015 at 05:51 |
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^I'm underway quite in the opposite direction - Pale Communion is one of my favourite 2014 albums, probably because I'm not a declared metal fan ...
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wrax
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Posted: March 15 2015 at 11:04 |
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I didn't like Pale Communion on first listen. Or second listen for that matter. The dodgy 5.1 mix didn't help either as I had a faulty disc which was later replaced. Moans aside, nearly six months after buying it I have changed my opinion. After recent repeat listenings, I have come to the conclusion that this is a very good and sophisticated album after all. I understand the frustration of the metalheads out there, wanting more "Demon of the Fall" or "Deliverance" or "White Cluster" when we end up with is something nearer to Comus or mid-70s Jethro Tull without the flutes. It is a record which needs time but it does eventually sneak up on you without you noticing.
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LearsFool
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Posted: March 15 2015 at 11:27 |
I'll be the second to note that many longtime fans from metal side ended up being as keen on the new album as almost all from the purely prog side were.
It's pretty good, but it's more for those who are down with modern takes on the '70's symph sound.
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: March 15 2015 at 11:30 |
Perhaps Opeth wants to be seen as being great musicians rather than great death metal musicians, whereby they have limited their options to a select group of listeners who somehow think death growls are pertinent to the music. As for myself, I see death growls as a metal stereotype that serves no real purpose, and, being so ubiquitous in so many bands for so many years, is neither innovative, clever or anything more than bad halloweenish theatrics. I purchased the last two Opeth albums, whereas I never considered buying their previous material.
Edited by The Dark Elf - March 15 2015 at 11:30
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Toaster Mantis
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Posted: March 15 2015 at 12:29 |
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I've had that issue with Opeth for a long for the same reasons as the OP and Raff, also with Edge of Sanity for a while. A lot of progressive metal sounds like an outsider approximation of either parent genre, and usually is. Some of them end up turning that to a positive, like Voivod for instance, but in Opeth's case I find it results in their longer more ambitious songs not being anywhere as well composed as most of the 1970s prog rock bands they're imitating. Found them way better at being a Katatonia-style death/doom metal group that happened to be a bit spacier than usual.
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progrockdeepcuts
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Posted: March 15 2015 at 12:40 |
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That's okay, I *really* don't understand the 8 or so albums leading up to the last two, but I love Heritage and Pale Communion.
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Stereolab
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Posted: March 16 2015 at 03:42 |
 Raff wrote:
I don't hang around metal forums, so I wouldn't know anything about the reception the metal community gave to those two albums. What I know is that I found Heritage terminally boring, and Pale Communion rather unimpressive on my first and only listen. I definitely liked Opeth much better when they still had a strong metal component to their music - and that includes the growls.
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Agree completely. To me Heritage is an epic disaster, one of the most spectacular examples of how a great band can go wrong by not knowing its strengths. Åkerfeldt thought he could make straight prog? OK, no problem, take six months, write some songs and see what happens. What they should have done then was realize the outcome was a disaster, toss it, and go back to making genius metal like Ghost Reveries (still get goosebumps listening to "The Grand Conjuration"). But whatever. If there's one thing the metal world doesn't lack for at the moment, it's insanely good bands, so I'm not gonna lie and say they're missed all THAT much...
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richardh
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Posted: March 16 2015 at 10:37 |
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I have some sympathy with the OP and Raff's views but I also find The Dark Elf's view pertinent. I never had any interest in Opeth until Heritage. I can listen to it and Pale Communion but neither seem particularly earth shattering. However I will likely persevere which I doubt I would have done with a straighter metal based approach.
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darkshade
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Posted: March 16 2015 at 10:46 |
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See, I liked Opeth back when I listened to metal a lot in my somewhat younger days before I knew prog. When I got into prog, along with a slew of genres and styles, I slowly moved away from Opeth, eventually losing all interest.
Heritage got me back into them a little, then Pale Communion got me back into them more, but I still don't listen as often as i used to. It was strange to compare Heritage with the previous albums, so I saw it as a transitional album. I haven't digested PC as much as I should have, but the albums have a quality that I like, though nothing too crazy.
I think I like it more because of where they came from, and I see these newer albums as more like Mikael solo albums, with the Opeth logo slapped on the front cover. I think context is needed and I'm still interested in where they go next on the follow up, but that album may be the deciding factor if I care to keep up any more.
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dr wu23
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Posted: March 16 2015 at 11:13 |
richardh wrote:
I have some sympathy with the OP and Raff's views but I also find The Dark Elf's view pertinent. I never had any interest in Opeth until Heritage. I can listen to it and Pale Communion but neither seem particularly earth shattering. However I will likely persevere which I doubt I would have done with a straighter metal based approach. |
^This.... I tried to get into earlier Opeth but simply couldn't handle the growling vocals.
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Padraic
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Posted: March 16 2015 at 11:15 |
Raff wrote:
I don't hang around metal forums, so I wouldn't know anything about the reception the metal community gave to those two albums. What I know is that I found Heritage terminally boring, and Pale Communion rather unimpressive on my first and only listen. I definitely liked Opeth much better when they still had a strong metal component to their music - and that includes the growls.
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Couldn't have stated my sentiments any better Raff.
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infandous
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Posted: March 16 2015 at 15:30 |
dr wu23 wrote:
richardh wrote:
I have some sympathy with the OP and Raff's views but I also find The Dark Elf's view pertinent. I never had any interest in Opeth until Heritage. I can listen to it and Pale Communion but neither seem particularly earth shattering. However I will likely persevere which I doubt I would have done with a straighter metal based approach. |
^This.... I tried to get into earlier Opeth but simply couldn't handle the growling vocals. |
Yeah, this is my feeling as well. I actually own Damnation, but really didn't enjoy it that much. I also had Blackwater Park, but really couldn't get into it. I've heard songs from other albums as well, and while I didn't particularly dislike them (growling vocals and all) I wasn't terribly impressed or interested in hearing more. These last two albums I like quite a bit. Probably not in my top 10 for the year for either, but still very good albums that I enjoy listening to very much. I may actually go back and check out Ghost Reveries and Watershed, since they seem to have been leading up to Harvest with those (even if their sound hadn't changed all that drastically yet).
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CryoftheCarrots
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Posted: March 17 2015 at 01:20 |
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I guess I'm in the minority that enjoys anything Opeth do.
Really hoping they play more of the newer material when I catch them in Adelaide in May though. Not because I dislike the older songs but because I want to hear how the newer songs work live. This will be my third time seeing them live.
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geekfreak
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Posted: March 22 2015 at 03:40 |
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so well so sorry im in the there crap...
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dennis_musiclover
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 15:02 |
i really like the new opeth album... but my friend also say's there's something missing...
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Smurph
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 15:16 |
I think what I really want is for them to find the happy middle ground between Pale Communion, Ghost Reveries, and Blackwater Park. A little bit of growls wouldn't hurt, but they wouldn't need to be the main focus.
The harmonies on Pale Communion are beautifully done, and some of the music is just downright amazing... it does completely miss a sense of drama to me though. It doesn't feel dramatic, and it doesn't feel overwhelming at all. Every time I hear Pale Communion I just think to myself... why couldn't he mix a little death metal stylistically in there? Why did he have to go one way or the other? Why couldn't he stretch himself further in ALL directions and create a true death metal slash throwback prog masterpiece???
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I just don't understand Opeth's last two albums.
