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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 28029
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Posted: February 12 2015 at 01:51 |
AZF wrote:
I appreciate them but know I have not done enough.The only time they've been around for my awareness was in their early 90's stab. I remember reading the reviews of Black Moon, but bought instead "The Atlantic Years" 2 CD (Originally on tape. Ah, I used to have loads of tapes) I have gone through all the love/hate and think there are worse bands the media can attack since ELP's prime. But for some reason, it's just not clicking with the same people who might have heard of Yes or Pink Floyd. (Casual buyers, I am not referring to anybody on these forums) How often do they get streamed? Not enough by me. But I still never got around to buying Black Moon (And was saddened to see how negative the reviews and hate was for "In The Hot Seat" which further made me listen to Soft Machine and King Crimson more instead.
But that's other bands, what is there to appreciate in Emerson, Lake & Palmer? Greg Lake's singing for a start. Conviction and made it look effortless. Carl Palmer's drumming and drive. If ELP had never happened, he would probably have never really fitted in any other bands and could of quite possibly quit them to work as a painter and decorator!! And lastly, the great man, Keith Emerson.
I think he will forever fail to connect positively with the collective non-PA public as apart from the ones who can't be arsed to begin with, all Keith's attempts to make Classical music accessible failed at the time and still seems a bit of a misdirection compared to the technology Keith could have explored instead.
I think if they'd stopped touring in 1974 (Which would have financially crippled them!) and announced a break then (It didn't happen this way, Captain Hindsight!) we could have possibly had their material from Works (Solo album stuff really?) and even Love Beach prepared and a lot more re-energised than they were.
So if I can care enough to wish ELP did this, then I appreciate ELP!
Still heard nothing from Emerson, Lake & Powell though. (I tell a lie, their reading of "Mars, Bringer of War" on a radio station I switched over) But I have heard "Five Bridges Suite" and can seriously understand why Keith felt he had to work with a better singer like Greg! |
Some extremely interesting thoughts although I am puzzled by a few of the comments. ELP did stop touring in 1974 as a matter of fact and only came back in 1977 some 3 years later. Financially the issues were I suspect connected to the label they set up. Manticore had to be cut loose and their hope of helping other artists died along with it. In the intervening time the only thing they did was work on solo material and that was pretty much all they had when they came back in 1977. It was that or nothing. I'll happily take it and Pirates remains as one of my favourite symphonic prog tracks. Like Rick I am puzzled by the word 'misdirection' but also the idea that Emerson's 'attempt to make classical music failed'. Pictures At An Exhibition was a massive commercial success so I just don't understand the point. Also with ELP , Keith Emerson was able to do a full blown Piano Concerto recorded with a world renowned orchestra and get it released and more importantly heard! I think he was extremely successful in this area both artistically and commercially. As regards the technology available well the early seventies and Bob Moog and all that was extremely exciting. I realise a lot of fans were let down when ELP did not pursue this further but you have to remember that ELP was a band and Greg Lake has quite a large say in things. Emerson didn't make all the creative decisions. Works was not a tech based album and for that reason it should actually get more respect. This was just about the music ( yep that old cliché!)
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Rick Robson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 03 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Status: Offline
Points: 1607
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Posted: February 12 2015 at 07:03 |
richardh wrote:
... Also with ELP , Keith Emerson was able to do a full blown Piano Concerto recorded with a world renowned orchestra and get it released and more importantly heard! I think he was extremely successful in this area both artistically and commercially.
As regards the technology available well the early seventies and Bob Moog and all that was extremely exciting. I realise a lot of fans were let down when ELP did not pursue this further but you have to remember that ELP was a band and Greg Lake has quite a large say in things. Emerson didn't make all the creative decisions. Works was not a tech based album and for that reason it should actually get more respect. This was just about the music ( yep that old cliché!)
| Nice to hear these words from you Richard. I thought he wanted to mean Emerson's 'attempt to make classical music more accessible to the masses failed'. And I reckon that all the cutting-edge technology available wasn't yet suitable for making just classical music, as it's neither essential nowadays imo. A good composer, if he wants, can perfectly dismiss even completely all that in order to compose a classical piece ('mind blowing' or not) with a touch of originality in it. I bear in mind this was an issue that Keith had in mind when working with the band to the releasing of Works.
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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Rick Robson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 03 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Status: Offline
Points: 1607
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Posted: February 13 2015 at 05:55 |
Been listening yesterday to Troika (From Prokofiev's Lieu) from 'I Believe In Father Christmas', enjoyed it and how the synths fit very well there too, I think people use to forget this EP has some interesting music, btw that Nutrocker is an excerpt from PAAE isn't it?
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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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AZF
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
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Posted: February 16 2015 at 11:01 |
To make amends for my post which got a few things wrong. I've ordered the "Welcome Back My Friends etc" CD.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: February 16 2015 at 12:51 |
AZF wrote:
To make amends for my post which got a few things wrong. I've ordered the "Welcome Back My Friends etc" CD. |
Congrats you now have one the best live albums made by a prog band.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: February 16 2015 at 12:59 |
Rick Robson wrote:
Been listening yesterday to Troika (From Prokofiev's Lieu) from 'I Believe In Father Christmas', enjoyed it and how the synths fit very well there too, I think people use to forget this EP has some interesting music, btw that Nutrocker is an excerpt from PAAE isn't it? |
Always liked that seasonal offering from Greg. He used the music very cleverly no doubt learning quickly from Emerson. Lyrics were Pete Sinfield's. Three verse's representing Past , Present and Future.Nice
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AZF
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
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Posted: February 16 2015 at 13:53 |
richardh wrote:
AZF wrote:
To make amends for my post which got a few things wrong. I've ordered the "Welcome Back My Friends etc" CD. |
Congrats you now have one the best live albums made by a prog band. |
Well it was all the talk of "Tarkus" live that made me go to You Tube and within 10 minutes I was thinking "f**k! I've got to get me this album!" It really works as a three piece with no overdubs.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: February 17 2015 at 01:53 |
AZF wrote:
richardh wrote:
AZF wrote:
To make amends for my post which got a few things wrong. I've ordered the "Welcome Back My Friends etc" CD. |
Congrats you now have one the best live albums made by a prog band. |
Well it was all the talk of "Tarkus" live that made me go to You Tube and within 10 minutes I was thinking "f**k! I've got to get me this album!" It really works as a three piece with no overdubs. |
That version of Tarkus is a total monster ( excuse the pun) . ELP were at the very top of their game.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
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Posted: February 17 2015 at 07:34 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: February 17 2015 at 11:56 |
AZF wrote:
To make amends for my post which got a few things wrong. I've ordered the "Welcome Back My Friends etc" CD. |
A masterpiece showing what a trio of great musicians at the top of their game could perform live, it's indeed amonster of an album. And the triple LP version was impressive when it came out.
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AZF
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 17 2012
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
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Posted: February 25 2015 at 11:28 |
"Welcome Back My Friends, To The Show That Never Ends - Ladies And Gentlemen, Emerson, Lake & Palmer" CD got delivered today so I've had a listen. The edition I got is the 2011 reissue. I remember seeing some controversy (In fact I think it might have also happened in the thread a few pages ago) about something being wrong with the remastering. It sounds fantastic to these ears at least!
This album has answered a lot of questions for me about Prog. It's explained the reason why Mike Ratledge never got his due in the 70's. And although it was close with Rick Wakeman, Keith Emerson is the greatest keyboardist the UK has ever produced! There is a lazy music journalism quote that a ten minute piano solo in the wrong hands is tedium (As I've found with my own bass solos haha!), I don't think it's fair for Emerson to be included as an example. "Piano Improvisations" is an absolute delight! Maybe the more I look into this album, I'll find details of how multiple takes were edited together spoiling the illusion. But as an aside, where did "Karn Evil 9" cut off on side five on the LP?
It goes without saying if they recorded all of their albums as a live three piece, instead of overdubbing in studios, they would have been harder to be seen as a target. Another conjecture triggered by ELP!
Special mention must also go to Carl Palmer. I would pay to see an "Emerson & Palmer" two man show. And whatever they say about the quality of the remaster, "Toccata" sounded so much better than it does on the 90's "The Atlantic Years" collection.
They seemed to have released more live albums than studio albums, so I'll look to see what the better ones are.
Maybe look at "Works Live". Trouble is, I did listen to their first 90's live album, and heard a few bum notes. The album can at least be proved to be a recording of musicians in their prime.
Mind you, why Keith Emerson hasn't been invited on the chat and panel shows like Wakeman, means he maybe hasn't got the social skills or must hold insane worldviews!
I still can't forgive him the making that Christmas album, however.
Thanks for this thread for making me get this album that I've burned and will program to play "Hoedown","Tarkus","Piano Improvisations" and "Karn Evil 9".
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: February 25 2015 at 14:36 |
^ Enjoyed reading that and glad you like .There is nothing wrong with that remaster although some fans have complained about the original mixing and production and sometimes it gets called 'muddy'. Its certainly not as crystal clear as Pictures but frankly I don't care. It is just one concert and it was Anaheim 1974. Some confusion does exist about this as some slightly different recordings have surfaced and appeared on a bonus disc for one of the compilation albums ( I mentioned this in a review) and also The King Biscuit Hour Presents. Believe me it is exactly the same gig but with a 'straight from boards' that to my ears is even better. But that remaster is still absolutely fine.
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geekfreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2013
Location: Musical Garden
Status: Offline
Points: 9872
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Posted: March 04 2015 at 13:13 |
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live
Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed.
Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… <
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: March 04 2015 at 16:34 |
I appreciate them!
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Rick Robson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 03 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Status: Offline
Points: 1607
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Posted: March 04 2015 at 18:49 |
yep, high class even to jump the shark EDIT:
geekfreak wrote:
love beach won`t crap... well side two is totally wonderous.. | I guess no other prog band dared to compose such a piece like ' Memoirs Of An Officer And A Gentleman' at the said time that a band is " jumping the shark" - btw definitely not a good expression imo for applying to any great artist who have composed timeless music. Who really loves classical music knows what I'm taking about, Memoirs clearly shows their unique talent for using classical elements, the final part of that song is sheer elegance - " high class" style indeed.
Edited by Rick Robson - March 05 2015 at 16:16
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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: March 04 2015 at 20:15 |
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Rick Robson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 03 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Status: Offline
Points: 1607
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Posted: March 05 2015 at 08:16 |
And I'd like to give here a suggestion of a "must have" for anyone who really loves heartfelt music, this is not just for who loves orchestral music:
And pointing out just one of my very favourite highlights - that such a strongly heartfelt and catchy melodies of "The Endless Enigma" are so beautifully enhanced by the stunning orchestra.. a deeply felt delight.
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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: March 06 2015 at 01:28 |
^yep I love that. In fact all of Keith's albums with Marc Bonilla are worth checking out including the recently reissued Changing States.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 17136
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Posted: March 06 2015 at 10:22 |
richardh wrote:
^yep I love that. In fact all of Keith's albums with Marc Bonilla are worth checking out including the recently reissued Changing States. |
Anyone who likes Marc's guitar playing should get his 1991 instrumental solo album EE Ticket. Emo appears on one track (on piano, not synth) and Kevin Gilbert is the primary keyboardist (piano, organ, clavichord, Mellotron). Good stuff. It got a nice digipack reissue a few years ago.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: March 07 2015 at 04:55 |
^ Cheers for that
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