Your thoughts on metal?

TradeMark0 wrote: manofmystery wrote: Awful, hate it, shouldn't be included in prog Would you care to explain?

Hey, don't feed the troll.

Awful, hate it, shouldn't be included in prog

Polymorphia wrote: Well, at least it's not for lack of exposure to "good" bands that you don't like metal. To each his own. One thing though: there's not a rock band whose "experimentalism" can't be attributed to free jazz and modern classical. That's because once you get to aleatory and free improvisation, there's not much further you can go in a closed system like Western music theory (aside from noise maybe). If you try to evaluate rock and metal based on Western music theory, you'll probably not find anything that goes further than free jazz or modern classical. Both rock and metal are "post-rules" i.e. rock and metal musicians and fans base the word "innovation" on things that sound and feel new not necessarily breaking the "rules" of Western theory, all of which, at this point, have been long broken. I dig free jazz and modern classical, but the metal bands I like that incorporate those influences to create what is, to me, a unique experience that I can't get in free jazz or modern classical, even if they are using the same compositional techniques. So it's not a divide between emotional and intellectual. The experimental metal bands you listened to, and prog rock are both intellectual and emotional to some extent (that's right, micky, metal can be intellectual), but the emotional aspect of metal is one that doesn't reach you like the emotions found in free jazz and modern classical, if I understand correctly. Although, I can concur, that when I hear a band like Between the Buried and Me (not to single any band out), there's nothing that feels special about them, especially because, like you, I'm not so dazzled by the technical aspects of the composition which I have seen a million times before in aforementioned genres.

siLLy puPPy wrote: At this point in history METAL music is an entire universe not just a small sub genre of the larger rock world possibly exceeding its scope in terms of sheer size surpassing progressive rock, indie rock or other niches. Of course many of this genres crossover. The truth of the matter in regard to the primary focus of this thread is that metal can be as simple or complex as your heart's desire with every shade varying in between. I have been a metalhead all my doggie days and still feel like i only scratch the surface of what's out there despite listening to new stuff every day. These sub genres of metal are little sub universes of their own with countless varieties of acts to choose from. Needless to say, i love metal. BTW i'm on the Errors & Omissions team on our sister site MMA so i have been getting more than my fill of new stuff! Extreme metal (black metal •  death metal • doom metal •  thrash metal) •  glam metal • gothic metal •  groove metal •  power metal • progressive metal •  speed metal • traditional heavy metal (complete list) Fusion genres Alternative metal •  avant-garde metal • Christian metal •  crust punk •  drone metal  • folk metal •  funk metal •  grindcore • industrial metal •  metalcore • neo-classical metal •  nu metal •  post-metal • rap metal •  sludge metal  •  stoner rock • symphonic metal •  Viking metal

Edited by Pastmaster - January 31 2015 at 19:20

rogerthat wrote: Used to be a huge metal fan.  My 'problem' was I liked and always will like lots of other music and I eventually got sick of some of my metal loving friends berating my preferences in music just because some of the bands I liked weren't metal.  Also, the almost assembly-line uniformity in a lot of metal which makes it hard to drill down to the albums that are interesting, more so because the fans seem to seek out more metal that is like metal they already have.  Staying metal matters more than creativity.  Whatever.  Got sick of the posturing eventually. But I still love blasting some of my favourite metal albums from time to time.  There's nothing like some magnificent crushing metal riffage to get the adrenaline pumping.

Raff wrote: Songs about animals? That's tame! What about songs SUNG by animals?

^Duh! My bad!

micky, you asked who would not want to look like that. Not who would.

TradeMark0 wrote: Polymorphia wrote: TradeMark0 wrote: Polymorphia wrote: TradeMark0 wrote: <span style="line-height: 1.4;">Some might argue how metal has adopted influences from other genres of music such as Baroque, Free jazz, and 20th century classical music, but I have personally found all of those genres to be a more rewarding listen than metal.  </span> <span style="line-height: 1.4;">Which metal have you check out by the way, in terms of the baroque, free jazz, modern classical kind?</span> The majority of metal music is influenced by baroque music. This is even more apparent with symphonic and neoclassical metal. Most of the technical innovations made in "experimental" metal can be attributed to to free jazz and 20th century classical music. I was asking about bands in particular. Metal is a diverse genre, so I can't tell whether the metal you've experienced that's supposed to be interesting is Yngwie Malmsteen, Riverside, Opeth, Kayo Dot, or Sunn O))). All very different artists. I have listened to all of those. Opeth and Kayo Dot used to be my favorite metal bands. I should of mentioned that when I was into metal I explored every inch of it.

Well, at least it's not for lack of exposure to "good" bands that you don't like metal. To each his own. One thing though: there's not a rock band whose "experimentalism" can't be attributed to free jazz and modern classical. That's because once you get to aleatory and free improvisation, there's not much further you can go in a closed system like Western music theory (aside from noise maybe). If you try to evaluate rock and metal based on Western music theory, you'll probably not find anything that goes further than free jazz or modern classical. Both rock and metal are "post-rules" i.e. rock and metal musicians and fans base the word "innovation" on things that sound and feel new not necessarily breaking the "rules" of Western theory, all of which, at this point, have been long broken. I dig free jazz and modern classical, but the metal bands I like that incorporate those influences to create what is, to me, a unique experience that I can't get in free jazz or modern classical, even if they are using the same compositional techniques. So it's not a divide between emotional and intellectual. The experimental metal bands you listened to, and prog rock are both intellectual and emotional to some extent (that's right, micky, metal can be intellectual), but the emotional aspect of metal is one that doesn't reach you like the emotions found in free jazz and modern classical, if I understand correctly.

Although, I can concur, that when I hear a band like Between the Buried and Me (not to single any band out), there's nothing that feels special about them, especially because, like you, I'm not so dazzled by the technical aspects of the composition which I have seen a million times before in aforementioned genres.

I love many different kinds of metal when I'm in the mood, although I can't call my myself all that well informed about metal, I know I've only scratched the surface.  I've tried to listen to a wide variety and write about some of these bands from the view of a relative newbie.  I've been pleasantly surprised.  As to the debate about metal's validity in the "prog scene", I couldn't care less.  I'm only here for love of music, not whether something is "progressive" or not.