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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 08:39 |
HolyMoly wrote:
Formalized "criticism" of artistic pursuits in general is an odd
pastime, when I think about it. Part of me knows that their purpose is
to inform the reader of the reviewers considered assessment of the
"value" of the work, in the hopes that the reader will have a similar
point of view (making it a persuasive piece of writing, in essence).
But
then another part of me also knows that art and music are really above
and beyond objective criticism (apart from a purely technical
description of the music), and that no two people can hear an album the
same way (kind of what Walton Street is saying above), so then the
purpose of the review is primarily to entertain rather than inform. And
if the purpose is to entertain, then there is some "value" in a piece
which harshly criticizes a piece of art - because for some people, that
kind of thing is fun to read. But in doing this, one must also be
sensitive to the parties involved. And in the case of a music review,
the artist who made the album is most definitely involved.
I
always tell myself that whatever I publish on the internet could very
well be read by the subjects of my review, and I will have to answer to
whatever I write. This doesn't mean sugar-coating everything, but it
does mean using tact - and if you make a bold claim, be sure you're
ready to back it up. We are all responsible for what we do and say. In
the internet world, it's easy to forget that, as we all hide behind
masks and sometimes think we can do or say anything without any
consequences. Those are the kind of environments I try to avoid on the
internet, because then it resembles actual human interaction less and
less, and I'm just not into that. Some are.
Conclusion - take
ownership of your reviews. Say good things, say bad things, but be
prepared to back it up, and use a level of tact befitting actual human
intercourse discourse.
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As is your norm, a very perceptive post. However, I don't get the 'didactic, persuasive' bit as for me, I couldn't give a discarded fig if anyone agrees with my review or not. How needy would someone have to be to offer: Here's my opinion, please make it mandatory? Someone as clearly as perceptive as yourself must realise that 'objective' criticism is a laudable but futile pretense, as any articulated opinion must reveal more about the subject than the object. In the light of recent European atrocities perpetuated by the 'intolerant/offended' in our midst, I applaud your recommended caution vis a vis published opinion and personal responsibility but to temper the articulation of our ideas by the potential ramifications of their interpretation by either violent dicks or fleecing solicitors has to be tantamount to countenancing a death warrant for sincerity. We cannot legislate against the mentally ill/opportunistic.
Edited by ExittheLemming - January 23 2015 at 08:52
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 08:54 |
Dean wrote:
Reviewers must be permitted to comment with impunity if they are to give their honest opinion of a piece of work, even if that is harsh or "unfair". Judging whether that harsh opinion is not an honest opinion is an "after-the-event" assessment that the reader is entitled to make, however, what we cannot do is presume that the reviewer is not being honest.
If we start imposing rules (above the normal standards of conduct implied by the Review Guidelines) then we are enforcing restrictions on reviewing practices that will also hamper fair and impartial reviews.
Not every album is solid gold and a review is of the music presented, not of the effort involved in making it.
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This says it all.
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 09:34 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
HolyMoly wrote:
Formalized "criticism" of artistic pursuits in general is an odd
pastime, when I think about it. Part of me knows that their purpose is
to inform the reader of the reviewers considered assessment of the
"value" of the work, in the hopes that the reader will have a similar
point of view (making it a persuasive piece of writing, in essence).
But
then another part of me also knows that art and music are really above
and beyond objective criticism (apart from a purely technical
description of the music), and that no two people can hear an album the
same way (kind of what Walton Street is saying above), so then the
purpose of the review is primarily to entertain rather than inform. And
if the purpose is to entertain, then there is some "value" in a piece
which harshly criticizes a piece of art - because for some people, that
kind of thing is fun to read. But in doing this, one must also be
sensitive to the parties involved. And in the case of a music review,
the artist who made the album is most definitely involved.
I
always tell myself that whatever I publish on the internet could very
well be read by the subjects of my review, and I will have to answer to
whatever I write. This doesn't mean sugar-coating everything, but it
does mean using tact - and if you make a bold claim, be sure you're
ready to back it up. We are all responsible for what we do and say. In
the internet world, it's easy to forget that, as we all hide behind
masks and sometimes think we can do or say anything without any
consequences. Those are the kind of environments I try to avoid on the
internet, because then it resembles actual human interaction less and
less, and I'm just not into that. Some are.
Conclusion - take
ownership of your reviews. Say good things, say bad things, but be
prepared to back it up, and use a level of tact befitting actual human
intercourse discourse.
|
As is your norm, a very perceptive post. However, I don't get the 'didactic, persuasive' bit as for me, I couldn't give a discarded fig if anyone agrees with my review or not. How needy would someone have to be to offer: Here's my opinion, please make it mandatory? Someone as clearly as perceptive as yourself must realise that 'objective' criticism is a laudable but futile pretense, as any articulated opinion must reveal more about the subject than the object. In the light of recent European atrocities perpetuated by the 'intolerant/offended' in our midst, I applaud your recommended caution vis a vis published opinion and personal responsibility but to temper the articulation of our ideas by the potential ramifications of their interpretation by either violent dicks or fleecing solicitors has to be tantamount to countenancing a death warrant for sincerity. We cannot legislate against the mentally ill/opportunistic.
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Fair enough - that was probably the weakest bit of my post anyway. I was talking from a more abstract position, trying to say that taking a value-based stance in a piece of writing (i.e. "I think this is good/bad") necessarily has a persuasive element to it - if we accept that the basic human urge is to gravitate towards the "good" and avoid the "bad", so a bit of writing that says something is "good" is trying, however subtly or unconsciously, to convince the reader of that point of view. This is all definitely debatable, and probably not essential to the bottom line of what I was saying anyway, but I can't resist going into "philosopher mode" now and then. You kind of lost me at the end, though, with scary words like "legislate" and "death warrant". Hope you're not reading too much into what I'm suggesting. ![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif) I'm a bit distracted by a lot of things today, so my internal strands of cognitive reasoning aren't at their best right now.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 09:43 |
^Ah, your cognitive reasoning seems pretty good to me, Steve.
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KingCrInuYasha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1281
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 11:41 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
...
We cannot legislate against the mentally ill/opportunistic.
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Or the pretentious. Or the silly. Or the pretentiously silly.
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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 21296
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:10 |
I don't review much and when I do it tends to be albums I have a lot of excitement about and want to spread the word, personally I don't have a lot of energy for writing reviews about albums I don't like, I also struggle to be fair and not come off as mean. All that said I 100% agree with Dean's comments.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:14 |
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I don't review much and when I do it tends to be albums I have a lot of excitement about and want to spread the word, personally I don't have a lot of energy for writing reviews about albums I don't like, I also struggle to be fair and not come off as mean. All that said I 100% agree with Dean's comments. |
I disagree here. I do not entirely agree with everything, Dean said ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif) hug to you, Nogbad_The_Bad ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif)
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earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2156
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:23 |
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I don't review much and when I do it tends to be albums I have a lot of excitement about and want to spread the word, personally I don't have a lot of energy for writing reviews about albums I don't like, .... |
I totally agree here, I mean you took the word right out of my mouth - if the album appears to be under the PA radar, I will write a review, although it drains my energy really. In my next life perhaps I would write reviews - next life, meaning retirement ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif) (look out ![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif) ).
Edited by earlyprog - January 23 2015 at 12:23
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earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2156
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:29 |
Kati wrote:
hug to you ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif) |
Hugs to you too, Kati ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif) , ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif) and ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif) .
(Between you and me, I think I got a crush on you ![Embarrassed Embarrassed](smileys/smiley9.gif) )
Could you spare some of that love for me?
Edited by earlyprog - January 23 2015 at 12:33
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Walton Street
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 872
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:32 |
earlyprog wrote:
Kati wrote:
hug to you ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif) |
Hugs to you too, Kati.
(Between you and me, I think I got a crush on you ![Embarrassed Embarrassed](smileys/smiley9.gif) )
Could you spare some of that love for me? |
And another one gone, and another one gone Another one bites the dust Hey, I'm gonna get you, too Another one bites the dust (tell me you aren't singing this in your head now)
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"I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
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earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2156
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:36 |
^I prefer not to reveal what's in my head right now.....
Edited by earlyprog - January 23 2015 at 12:47
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:40 |
Walton Street wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
Kati wrote:
hug to you ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif) |
Hugs to you too, Kati.
(Between you and me, I think I got a crush on you ![Embarrassed Embarrassed](smileys/smiley9.gif) )
Could you spare some of that love for me? |
And another one gone, and another one gone Another one bites the dust Hey, I'm gonna get you, too Another one bites the dust (tell me you aren't singing this in your head now)
|
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
|
Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:42 |
Walton Street wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
Kati wrote:
hug to you ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif) |
Hugs to you too, Kati.
(Between you and me, I think I got a crush on you ![Embarrassed Embarrassed](smileys/smiley9.gif) )
Could you spare some of that love for me? |
And another one gone, and another one gone Another one bites the dust Hey, I'm gonna get you, too Another one bites the dust (tell me you aren't singing this in your head now)
|
hahaha Walton Street, I love Freddie too!!!! And my new fav person is earlyprog, he is charming and hot ![Big smile Big smile](smileys/smiley4.gif) gnack gnack gnack ![Embarrassed Embarrassed](smileys/smiley9.gif) group hug ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif)
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:44 |
^ Fortunately for Kati - she's in Mozambique ![](smileys/smiley36.gif) ......
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:49 |
Queen--Is This the World We Created (from Live Aid '85). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdSnsVwbTcM
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:51 |
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earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2156
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:52 |
Kati wrote:
Walton Street wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
Kati wrote:
hug to you ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif) |
Hugs to you too, Kati.
(Between you and me, I think I got a crush on you ![Embarrassed Embarrassed](smileys/smiley9.gif) )
Could you spare some of that love for me? |
And another one gone, and another one gone Another one bites the dust Hey, I'm gonna get you, too Another one bites the dust (tell me you aren't singing this in your head now)
|
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Kati, you responded with your signature ( ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif) ). Does this mean you will PM me ![Heart Heart](smileys/smiley27.gif)
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Walton Street
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 872
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:53 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
^ Fortunately for Kati - she's in Mozambique ...... |
but dahhhling, anybody who is ANYBODY lives in Mozambique
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"I know one thing: that I know nothing"
- SpongeBob Socrates
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earlyprog
Special Collaborator
Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams
Joined: March 05 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 2156
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 12:56 |
What's wrong with 69? I like 69.
That's the year '69. Great year for prog and music in general
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: January 23 2015 at 13:01 |
earlyprog wrote:
Kati, you responded with your signature ( ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif) ). Does this mean you will PM me ![Heart Heart](smileys/smiley27.gif) |
No need for pm's all has been said here. Big hug to you ![Hug Hug](smileys/smiley31.gif)
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