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Topic ClosedProg Semi Final #2 - Genesis v.. King Crimson

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Poll Question: Who is your band?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
85 [50.30%]
84 [49.70%]
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Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 04:44
Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Friday13th Friday13th wrote:

Wow, Genesis made the comeback! If only with their music instead of this silly contest Tongue

The best thing that could ever happen to Genesis is to never have a comeback.

1.- We no longer live in the 70's
2.- People would expect to much from guys who been playing different music for decades
3.- We would have to listen Musical Box after Illegal Alien
4.- The magic will live forever, we will remember them young and in their peak.
5.- We won't have to see a bunch of older guys trying to make what they did 40 years ago.


Exactly this.
+1.
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Friday13th View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:05
@Ivan A "comeback" implies everything you explained away. They wouldn't just recreate stuff from the '70s. They wouldn't play classics after pop songs. How can we expect too much after their miserable last two albums? Where have you been for 30+ years? I remember them at their lowest without even Collins. King Crimson did a comeback multiple times. Larks, Discipline, Thrak...you could argue Duke is a minor comeback
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:11
Wow.. First Yes vs Pink Floyd and now King Crimson vs Genesis.. Gotta go with Genesis. The truth is both have their golden days and then.. not so much :p King Crimson is the strangest band there is, their albums are very different, is like they were a page from a book that was flying across the city waiting for someone to catch it. Once it was catched a new album would appear, then the page would fly again and the following album would be even stranger. (My description of King Crimson is gay, isn't it?) :D

Well, Genesis is better for me but King Crimson still amazes me everytime, in a different way
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:28
Originally posted by Hemis Hemis wrote:

Wow.. First Yes vs Pink Floyd and now King Crimson vs Genesis.. Gotta go with Genesis. The truth is both have their golden days and then.. not so much :p King Crimson is the strangest band there is, their albums are very different, is like they were a page from a book that was flying across the city waiting for someone to catch it. Once it was catched a new album would appear, then the page would fly again and the following album would be even stranger. (My description of King Crimson is gay, isn't it?) :D

Well, Genesis is better for me but King Crimson still amazes me everytime, in a different way

I would politely request that you don't use that word in that context, please.

Thank you in anticipation.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:29
Ahh ok! Where I live and amongst my friends we don't use it in an offensive way

Edited by Hemis - January 15 2015 at 08:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:37
Originally posted by Hemis<span style=line-height: 18.2000007629395px;> Hemis wrote:

 King Crimson is the strangest band there is, their albums are very different, is like they were a page from a book that was flying across the city waiting for someone to catch it. Once it was catched a new album would appear, then the page would fly again and the following album would be even stranger. (My description of King Crimson is gay, isn't it?) :D Well, Genesis is better for me but King Crimson still amazes me everytime, in a different way 

Your describe what progressive music should really be - surprising, unpredictable, stimulating, captivating, sometimes unsettling. Nothing to do with odd time signatures, mellotrons and moogs and 20-minute songs. 

Genesis did make a few very interesting albums in the 1970s; and that's when their prog career ended, for one reason or another. They haven't made any prog albums in 30+ years, any not cringe-and-puke albums for over 20 years, and any albums at all for 17 years. And that's, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely how you beat The King Crimson in Progarchives polls. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:37
Originally posted by Hemis Hemis wrote:

Ahh ok! Where I live and amongst my friends we don't use it in an offensive way
 
anytime it's used as an adjective of negativity it's offensive.
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:42
Originally posted by Walton Street Walton Street wrote:

Originally posted by Hemis Hemis wrote:

Ahh ok! Where I live and amongst my friends we don't use it in an offensive way
 
anytime it's used as an adjective of negativity it's offensive.

But who said it was used by me as an adjective of negativity?! First, there's something you must understand: I said my description of King Crimson was gay, not King Crimson themselves. And do you know when something has too many flowers? In a way that it has many things so it gets confused when it should be simple. That was what I meant! Inventing a word right here - My description was gay in a way it was flowersy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:43
Originally posted by Walton Street Walton Street wrote:

Originally posted by Hemis Hemis wrote:

Ahh ok! Where I live and amongst my friends we don't use it in an offensive way
 
anytime it's used as an adjective of negativity it's offensive.


The g-word may a mighty matter of linguistic discussions. But in its original context it is not offensive. It is funny how this word and its derivatives in other Western European languages is deprived of its original meaning, having obtained different sexual connotations which have pulled it off nowadays.


Edited by someone_else - January 15 2015 at 08:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:44
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:


Your describe what progressive music should really be - surprising, unpredictable, stimulating, captivating, sometimes unsettling. Nothing to do with odd time signatures, mellotrons and moogs and 20-minute songs. 


I agree, King Crimson is more progressive than Genesis but I prefer Genesis :p Who do you prefer?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 08:50
Originally posted by Friday13th Friday13th wrote:

@Ivan A "comeback" implies everything you explained away. They wouldn't just recreate stuff from the '70s. They wouldn't play classics after pop songs. How can we expect too much after their miserable last two albums? Where have you been for 30+ years? I remember them at their lowest without even Collins. King Crimson did a comeback multiple times. Larks, Discipline, Thrak...you could argue Duke is a minor comeback

people has always been saying that a comeback with Gabriel and Hackett would be the best thing since the invention of the wheel.

Sorry but I don't agree

- They haven't played together since 1982
- They been playing different styles and genres
- Except Hackett and Gabriel, most are semi retired except Mike who toured with The Mechanics
- People will expect everything from the classic lineout, no matter how bad the two last albums were
- Crimson is a different case, Fripp has always been reluctant to play old classics, Collins always played the Prog medley even in the poppiest era to hook the older fans
- Prog Genesis fans will go to listen Musical Box, Pop Genesis fans will go to listen Illegal Alien and they will have to settle
- I don't care about Duke at all, but it wasn't a comeback, they released this album after two years of ATTW3.

PS: I've been here for rthe last 30 years, listening Prog, writing reviews, trying to help keep Prg alive and  supporting new bands 

I want to remember the classic lineout for Foxtrot and The Lamb,. not for a mediocre album played by people who haven't been together for at least 3 decades

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 09:01
 below

Edited by Argonaught - January 15 2015 at 09:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 09:02
Originally posted by Hemis Hemis wrote:

 I agree, King Crimson is more progressive than Genesis but I prefer Genesis :p Who do you prefer? 
 
KC, on many different levels. My favorite Genesis album is Invisible Touch, which is normally not considered prog. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 09:13
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:


Your describe what progressive music should really be - surprising, unpredictable, stimulating, captivating, sometimes unsettling. Nothing to do with odd time signatures, mellotrons and moogs and 20-minute songs.

1.- As far as I know, Genesis is the big Prog band less fond obn 20 minutes song, the only real epic in their career was Supper's Ready.

King Crimson on the other hand had

- Larks Tongues in Aspic Part 1 + 2: Over 20 minutes
- Moonchild (Over 12 minutes)
- Lizard (Over 20 minutes)
- Space Groove (38:20)

2.- Mellotron & Moog: As far as I know, King Crrimnson used Mellotron and Moog 

3.- Odd time signatures...Cough Starless - Cough

Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Genesis did make a few very interesting albums in the 1970s; and that's when their prog career ended, for one reason or another. 

¿A few?

1.- Trespass
2.- Nursery Cryme
3.- Foxtrot
4.- Selling England by the Pound
5.- The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
6.- A Trick of the Tail
7.- Wind & Wuthering

For most Prog listeners (Not for me)

8.- ATTW3
9.- Duke

The 7 first in a lapse of 6 years, one after the other, with no weak album.

Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

They haven't made any prog albums in 30+ years, any not cringe-and-puke albums for over 20 years, and any albums at all for 17 years

The bands have a different lapse of life, the important thing is what they have done in their career, not what they did yesterday

The Beatles haven't done an album in the last 45 years and I bet they would win in many polls against big Prog bands

Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

. And that's, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely how you beat The King Crimson in Progarchives polls. 

You beat them (if even Genesis wins because this is tight) with seven 100% Prog flawless albums in 6 years and fantastic masterpieces.

Genesis haters work hard, but still Genesis is among the most respected bands in Prog.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 15 2015 at 09:14
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 10:12
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 1.- As far as I know, Genesis is the big Prog band less fond obn 20 minutes song, the only real epic in their career was Supper's Ready. King Crimson on the other hand had
- Larks Tongues in Aspic Part 1 + 2: Over 20 minutes
- Moonchild (Over 12 minutes)
- Lizard (Over 20 minutes)
- Space Groove (38:20)
2.- Mellotron & Moog: As far as I know, King Crrimnson used Mellotron and Moog 
3.- Odd time signatures...Cough Starless - Cough 
Yes, but my point was that the "progressiveness" of an album should be determined by the innovation and the surprise it offers to the listener, not so much on the basis of what instruments or techniques are used. 

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 The Beatles haven't done an album in the last 45 years and I bet they would win in many polls against big Prog bands 
. They have not indeed. But, if we had a hypothetical band that was as great as the Beatles in the 1960s, but continued well into the 70s and 80s with a another dozen highly apperciated albums, I would say that this band is superior to the Beatles.  

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 Genesis haters work hard, but still Genesis is among the most respected bands in Prog. 
Yes, even recognized by Rolling Stone magazine Thumbs Up. By the way, I do not hate Genesis - but I have no respect for much of their post 1970s discography, which is reflected in my vote. For the same reason, I voted for PF and against Yes in another poll. 


Edited by Argonaught - January 15 2015 at 10:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 10:13
I repeat, 'In the Court of...' was hugely influential on Genesis when they were locked away in their cottage pre-Trespass - Banks has said it himself.  Although Crimson were innovators, Fripp put the band into hiatus while Genesis flew past them although Gabriel left not long after in 75.  The reformed Crimson of the early 80s were innovative, albeit briefly, while Genesis had started to veer towards - ahem - 'standard' songs.  All this makes comparison difficult...(I voted Genesis BTW)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 10:19
Ivan, the point that I'm trying to get across is Genesis did not end well. You're acting like they were the Beatles who walked out on a high note. I don't care about what would happen if they tried now in the year 2015, the point is they didn't and they 99% chance won't because they don't have it in them anymore. King Crimson on the other hand has been interesting since 1981. You can argue classic Genesis from Trespass to Wuthering is better than classic Crimson from Court to Red, but you could also argue the reverse.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 10:39
I came at 61 each!! KC gets mine: Crimson has sharper moments, they're somehow jubilant and triumphing daredevils, though they'd struggled with coherence. Genesis loses because of the overall melancholic feel, despite their colourful, inventive and solidly written pieces.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 10:43
oh my god - i'm going to have to recruit friends, family, workmates to sign up and vote for Genesis, because if they lose, my head will spontaneously explode, like the cracker on the Chapelle Show who found out the leader of the KKK was a black man.
 
 
or .. maybe i'll just go on listening to Genesis, a mild mannered IT professional by day, fighting crime by night.
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2015 at 10:46
Why can't I vote? I have the power to untie things xb but I cannot use it o.O
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