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Gerinski 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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 Topic: Has anybody played NST?
Posted: January 07 2015 at 09:12 |
New Standard Tuning, the guitar tuning proposed by Robert Fripp in the mid 1980's, where all strings are tuned in fifths except for the 1st string which is tuned as a minor third up from the 2nd string (only because he could not find any string gauge which could be tuned also as a fifth without breaking).
Has anybody here tried it? Apparently the big difference is that, apart from a wider pitch range, it naturally tends to avoid diatonic playing (major and minor chord intervals) and makes you concentrate mostly on fourths, fifths and octave intervals. And except for the exceptional 1st string tuning, chord shapes can be transposed between all the other strings.
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LizardsExist
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Joined: December 17 2014
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Posted: January 08 2015 at 18:41 |
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Tried it once but it was too confusing.
Now when you brought it up, I think I might try it again
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HackettFan
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Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
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Points: 7951
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Posted: January 11 2015 at 20:21 |
I'd like to try it on someone else's guitar. 
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HackettFan
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Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: January 11 2015 at 20:29 |
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I just got to thinking, though, that maybe the whole thing could be drop tuned and then compensated by a rise in pitch from a harmonizer in order to get the 1st string consistent with the tuning without snapping it.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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Points: 5154
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Posted: January 12 2015 at 03:45 |
 HackettFan wrote:
I just got to thinking, though, that maybe the whole thing could be drop tuned and then compensated by a rise in pitch from a harmonizer in order to get the 1st string consistent with the tuning without snapping it. |
That's possible in principle but probably it would mean playing with too thick strings. If you just drop tune the strings 2 to 6 by four semitones without changing to heavier gauges the strings would be far too loose. You would need to use heavier strings to retain the tension, so even if you could then recover the desired pitch by using a harmonizer, the feel would be more like you are playing a 6 string bass rather than a guitar. My guess.
Another possibility would be rising the pitch of the 1st string only by the required 4 semitones using a harmonizer, but that could only be done with a midi-like guitar where you could alter the pitch of one string only and not of the other 5 (a guitar with individual pickups for each string).
Edited by Gerinski - January 12 2015 at 03:47
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HackettFan
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Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: January 13 2015 at 13:26 |
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Yes, definitely a MIDI guitar would do the trick. But sticking with regular pickups, and just thinking out loud, I think there might be a possible solution using a capo...perhaps. A capo might mitigate the flopping of the 6th string. Hmm...I'm not sure. I don't have a guitar nearby right now. It'd be a real balancing act trying to get the two extremes; how much one changes the tuning vs. where to place the capo vs. how much to adjust everything with a harmonizer...an intriguing problem. The span between the notes might turn out to just be too large no matter what, but I might try to look into it first hand anyway. I recall in the 80s there being a capo product in which you could pick and choose which strings you wanted held down. I don't know if there's such a product available today. It would be helpful if there was.
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Polymorphia
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Joined: November 06 2012
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Posted: January 13 2015 at 13:43 |
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You could probably use a mandolin string for the first string. Length might be a problem, though. I imagine you might be able to find a longer mandolin string for a shorter-neck guitar. A strat maybe.
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Polymorphia
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Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
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Posted: January 13 2015 at 13:45 |
HackettFan wrote:
Yes, definitely a MIDI guitar would do the trick. But sticking with regular pickups, and just thinking out loud, I think there might be a possible solution using a capo...perhaps. A capo might mitigate the flopping of the 6th string. Hmm...I'm not sure. I don't have a guitar nearby right now. It'd be a real balancing act trying to get the two extremes; how much one changes the tuning vs. where to place the capo vs. how much to adjust everything with a harmonizer...an intriguing problem. The span between the notes might turn out to just be too large no matter what, but I might try to look into it first hand anyway. I recall in the 80s there being a capo product in which you could pick and choose which strings you wanted held down. I don't know if there's such a product available today. It would be helpful if there was. |
It still exists to my knowledge.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: January 13 2015 at 14:04 |
HackettFan wrote:
Yes, definitely a MIDI guitar would do the trick. But sticking with regular pickups, and just thinking out loud, I think there might be a possible solution using a capo...perhaps. A capo might mitigate the flopping of the 6th string. Hmm...I'm not sure. I don't have a guitar nearby right now. It'd be a real balancing act trying to get the two extremes; how much one changes the tuning vs. where to place the capo vs. how much to adjust everything with a harmonizer...an intriguing problem. The span between the notes might turn out to just be too large no matter what, but I might try to look into it first hand anyway. I recall in the 80s there being a capo product in which you could pick and choose which strings you wanted held down. I don't know if there's such a product available today. It would be helpful if there was. |
I don't see how you could ever use a capo for that. The objective is having the 6 strings tuned as fifths on the same fret (or open of course) so that the chord and scale shapes are regular across the 6 strings.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: January 13 2015 at 14:09 |
Polymorphia wrote:
You could probably use a mandolin string for the first string. Length might be a problem, though. I imagine you might be able to find a longer mandolin string for a shorter-neck guitar. A strat maybe.
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No, mandolin strings are not any more "trebble" per se than guitar strings, they only sound more trebble because the scale lenght of the instrument is shorter. The typical mandolin 1st string is 0.11 or so, while for guitars we have even 0.09, but a 0.09 on a guitar sounds lower than a 0.11 on a mandolin simply because it's longer.
I guess that if one Mr. Fripp did not find a solution (and possibly more than one string manufacturer would be happy to make custom strings for him if that gave them publicity) it's because there's no solution.
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
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Points: 7951
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Posted: January 13 2015 at 15:05 |
Gerinski wrote:
HackettFan wrote:
Yes, definitely a MIDI guitar would do the trick. But sticking with regular pickups, and just thinking out loud, I think there might be a possible solution using a capo...perhaps. A capo might mitigate the flopping of the 6th string. Hmm...I'm not sure. I don't have a guitar nearby right now. It'd be a real balancing act trying to get the two extremes; how much one changes the tuning vs. where to place the capo vs. how much to adjust everything with a harmonizer...an intriguing problem. The span between the notes might turn out to just be too large no matter what, but I might try to look into it first hand anyway. I recall in the 80s there being a capo product in which you could pick and choose which strings you wanted held down. I don't know if there's such a product available today. It would be helpful if there was. |
I don't see how you could ever use a capo for that. The objective is having the 6 strings tuned as fifths on the same fret (or open of course) so that the chord and scale shapes are regular across the 6 strings. |
Certainly you might be right. However, the capo will help one get the higher tuning on the 1st string and strengthen it against breakage when tuned up, I expect. A capo will work against getting the 6th string low enough, true, but it will make the 6th string more secure at the same time so that it doesn't flop. Maybe it's a zero sum gain for that, but possibly not?
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: January 13 2015 at 17:04 |
HackettFan wrote:
Certainly you might be right. However, the capo will help one get the higher tuning on the 1st string and strengthen it against breakage when tuned up, I expect. A capo will work against getting the 6th string low enough, true, but it will make the 6th string more secure at the same time so that it doesn't flop. Maybe it's a zero sum gain for that, but possibly not? |
Don't think so. Maybe you are more referring to something like the string locking brackets placed just before the nut in guitars with a tremolo bridge (I have them installed in both my guitars, they help keeping the strings in tune when operating the whammy bar). But they just secure the string from losing tension, that's all, they have no capo effect at all. Any real capo would be on the freatboard, so disturbing the playing of the strings you do not want being capo'd.
Edited by Gerinski - January 13 2015 at 17:09
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
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Posted: January 13 2015 at 20:55 |
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I did it. I started out with C-G-D-A-E-G. G was as far as I felt comfortable in tuning the first string, but it's the same as the New Standard Tuning. I put a capo on the 4th fret to raise it to a B, which is the perfect fifth of E. Then I tuned it down the other strings to get the strings back down to the pitch they were at prior to the capo. I didn't have any use for a harmonizer. You might give it a try. The sixth string does not buzz, but it is pretty limp. It's equally limp as a low C with a capo as a low C without a capo, so nothing's lost there, just the first four frets. Having a high action might help. I don't have any scales figured out, and I'm not immediately in love with it. My intonation was already off. It might be really off now.
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Has anybody played NST?
