2nd Round Portland Bracket: ELP v. Camel

kenethlevine wrote: Kati wrote: kenethlevine wrote: Friday13th wrote: VDGG and Renaissance too...but nah, lacking a killer guitarist is never a plus. while Renaissance didn't have a killer guitarist, at least they always had a full time guitarist, even if he only played acoustic guitar for most of his tenure.  I and my colleague ClemofNazareth might be in the minority, but we both rated "A Song for all Seasons" as their best, and part of that had to do with the lead guitar presence.  A permanent guitarist without any input is not interesting to me, for instance even Alice Cooper who is a rock metal band not prog, had two guitarists playing at the same time, good ones.  big hug I love acoustic guitar, and to me there's a world of difference between having no guitarist and having just an acoustic guitarist.  Dunford's acoustic guitar was an integral part of Renaissance classics like "Black Flame" and "Carpet of the Sun", even if it was not the primary instrument.  But yeah it got better when they started using lead, and two guitarists can make things even more interesting.  One can play acoustic and the other electric

I still haven't voted yet, BTW...

rogerthat wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Stool Man wrote: Camel didn't make Love Beach. Neither Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery. Only the ones who take the risk can ruin an album. Playing Pictures at an Exhibition before a myriad of hippies who didn't even knew who Mussorgsky was, is a risk Camel always played safe with soporiferous albums. I can only listen Moonmadness without feeling an urge to go to sleep . Iván Kind of sums up my views, though I probably like Mirage more than any ELP album.  Even Mirage was heavily derivative of a lot of Canterbury.

Hercules wrote: rogerthat wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Stool Man wrote: Camel didn't make Love Beach. Neither Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery. Only the ones who take the risk can ruin an album. Playing Pictures at an Exhibition before a myriad of hippies who didn't even knew who Mussorgsky was, is a risk Camel always played safe with soporiferous albums. I can only listen Moonmadness without feeling an urge to go to sleep . Iván Kind of sums up my views, though I probably like Mirage more than any ELP album.  Even Mirage was heavily derivative of a lot of Canterbury. Er, no it wasn't. Camel didn't know where Canterbury was until Richard Sinclair joined.

as well on counting on him recognizing what these lovely gentlemen expressed so succinctly.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Stool Man wrote: Camel didn't make Love Beach. Neither Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery. Only the ones who take the risk can ruin an album. Playing Pictures at an Exhibition before a myriad of hippies who didn't even knew who Mussorgsky was, is a risk Camel always played safe with soporiferous albums. I can only listen Moonmadness without feeling an urge to go to sleep . Iván

because... though ELP did swing and miss at times... but when they made contact.. they hit moonshots..

Padraic wrote: To me nothing I have heard from Camel even approaches the best that ELP had to offer.

consistency is just another word for mediocrity... only the best like ELP and King Crimson really made creative risks. Sure ELP missed... but they connected AS many if not more. Those first 5 albums are mandatory prog albums in ANY prog fans collection.  They are part of the basic DNA of prog rock.  Nothing Camel did qualifies as either. Mandatory or genre defining.

Taking creative risks is a great thing when a band like King Crimson does it as they never fail to connect with me emotionally. Just like Camel often does. ELP were mediocre as experimentalists and I've never considered experimenting interesting by default.    

Quick! Get the camel some water for Pete's sake!

Saperlipopette! wrote: Taking creative risks is a great thing when a band like King Crimson does it as they never fail to connect with me emotionally. Just like Camel often does. ELP were mediocre as experimentalists and I've never considered experimenting interesting by default.

hah. Sounds like another bullsh*t ELP criticism. Along with being too serious, too pretentious all the while while people hammer them for NOT being such in lighter more off beat 'fun' tracks they did to lighten the mood of their albums. So it is to lack of emotion with ELP. Is that the critcism of the day to throw at them Bullsh*t.

I'm all for music connecting emotionally. It is the single most important thing I look for myself.  ELP does. Emotion is not simply soft and sensitive. We are humans.. full of innate rage and agreession and music very often is that release we have to keep from expressing it in very real ways.

 That is what I love most about ELP'smusic.  It is damn well emotional. As Ivan noted earlier.. ELP is pure adrenalin... and music that is extremely aggressive and hits you over the head inspires emotions just as valid and as strong as the urge to chill out, fall f**king asleep or OD on vallium as Camel does.

micky wrote: hah. Sounds like another bullsh*t ELP criticism.

Its not bullsh*t to me as its how I respond to them. ELP's music is kind of emotional I guess as there's not many bands that has a sound that I find so repulsive that it makes me want to destroy... things. Of course there's not much to discuss. I can't stand ELP you fall asleep to Camel.

Edited by Saperlipopette! - December 17 2014 at 17:51

Emotion is an essential part of any damn good symphonic-wise prog piece, ELP does not only satisfies this requisite qualifications but often exceeds it with their genuine lush and manic kind of energy that literally wants to conquer the world!, and this especially Keith Emerson managed to bring so brilliantly out from the classical world (the most emotional music world that I've ever listened to, one of the main reasons it's my long time favourite form of music.)