Does Miles Davis belong in Prog?

Angelo wrote: Kati wrote: Rednight wrote: Great song defiled by the back-up band of a no-talent. Go blog her site with this info. Rednight, by referring to her, I think I am the only one here to be referred as her. I do not have a blog and you are not a nice person either. Hmmmm... I think he meant Miley, Kati, not you.

BrufordFreak wrote: micky wrote: BrufordFreak wrote: When you think of "progressive rock music" does Miles Davis come to mind?  When you think of Miles Davis do you think of progressive rock music?  When you listen to Miles Davis do you think, "Man, this is great prog!" ?? I bet not. Hell no I do not! While I would not argue that Miles Davis' bold musical experiments significantly contributed to the mental courage it took to take music into new and different directions--into what we call "progressive rock"--I would argue that he  Miles Davis belongs within the "proto-prog" compartment for the ripple effects that his albums and concerts and interviews had on musicians in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. Yes, but Proto-Prog more so than Prog Related is one of the worst things this site has done and handled IMO. To be done and done correctly it would have been a Pandora's Box, perhaps recognizing that, those in charge of it have nessarily done an incomplete job with it. Some have been included .. not all and many that were had no business being there. The Doors? Bullsh*t..  No one loves the Airplane more than me, but Proto-PROG. Come on.. As proof of my case, look at Mickey and Raffa's latest polarity contest poll entitled "WINTER MADNESS:  PA's Battle of the Bands": 64 of the most popular and "influential" prog bands, both past and present, which had no place, no call, no advocacy for an artist who has no less than 6 albums in the PA Top 250 Studio albums of all-time, no less than 10 albums in the PA archives with average ratings over 4.0, yet the prog rockers here on PA did not feel him worthy of a place in the polling contest of the most popular and influential artists/bands of all-time.  The masses seem to be saying that Miles Davis is not prog. hahaha. I don't know about the masses.  What one can take from what I said was Miles Davis transcends mere prog rock and simply didn't 'fit' the overall feel of the contest.  It was done for fun's sake for God's sake.  Therefore, it seems natural that Miles Davis does not deserve to be in the main, general files of PA. His work served to influence artist to become adventurous--perhaps to become progressive or even to become prog, but his music is not what I consider prog. His music is not what I would ever submit to a newbie as a prime example of prog (unless I were shamelessly trying to pad the prog resumé).  Miles Davis belongs in Proto-prog. The issue isn't Miles Davis, it is the school of thought that some have that being included IN the database means the site is saying they are prog artists.  One can do prog albums and not be considered a prog artist. Look at Genesis haha.  History sees Genesis as a pop group, no matter what prog fan wants to think. However they had a prog phase.  Miles Davis did albums which fit a sub-genre this site considers to be prog or progressive rock (related but different). However the site is not saying Davis is a prog artist. He transcended that mere tag dude. Some good points here, Micky. Regarding your last paragraph: I've watched as PA has gradually expanded its borders by including groups like Queen, Led Zeppelin, Journey, etc., which had some albums with some prog-like songs. I, however, fail to hear this "progginess" in Miles Davis' music--not like I do in other artists mentioned above that have that "rock" feel like Nucleus, Mahavishnu, RTF, and Hancock and Metheny. I think by having 6 Miles albums occupy spots in the All-Time Top 250 studio albums list, PA is saying that Miles is prog--especially since those albums span a 20 year span.  I think he is a jazz artist. Period.

ahh.. There you are.  I had wondered if you had just set this bag of sh*t on fire and left it at PA's front door and you were sitting back, watching and laughing, as I have been as it ran its course.

Those bands you mention were added to prog-related.  Apples and oranges I would say but yes.  PA has, even before I got on board and directly involved with the genre teams, been moving away from a strict 'prog rock' format.  I assume you saw my post on the 1st page.  I think that is quite an accurate assessment of the site.  Sure bands are still getting rejected for not being 'prog' even though many.. MANY of the bands here are not prog. The site had moved, and I definitely helped push it further, to being more about progressive rock and progressive music per se.  Whether you think, or I think, Miles is jazz, rock, or some hybrid of the two is really meaningless.  The more enlightened collabs on this site, and I damn sure counted myself as one and actively recruited like-minded people into the collab ranks, have the understanding this site is not about what we think.. but more what the community thinks and what would best serve the people that use the site.

Does Miles Davis belong.. does he fit in a progressive rock website.  Give me 10 people and I'm sure we'd get a good range of viewpoints. The point is, there is good enough reason (call it presumed innocence haha) to include him and then let the forum hash it out... via threads like this.. for themselves. 

I always considered the worst sin of a site  that claims to be the 'ultimate resource' to be exclusionary. Best to error on the side of including borderline or debatable bands. For every one like you that doesn't think he belongs... there will be another that does.

Just my two cents.

rogerthat wrote:  I mean, a lot of jazz/classical is 'above prog' anyway.  We only flatter ourselves by believing that Miles Davis is prog when his work is a lot more than prog.

But we could ask that question of more than half the bands on PA - is it prog rock?

Let's not ask, we'd be here all day

Stool Man wrote: But we could ask that question of more than half the bands on PA - is it prog rock? Let's not ask, we'd be here all day

So here comes the bigger question, "What is progressive music ? "

Edited by Davesax1965 - December 12 2014 at 07:39

I've never really liked Miles Davis' vibe, which I'm glad, since if he was so influential, I'm not that impressed by a lot of what he suppossedly inspired.  I'm looking for a whole new realm of music that I've never heard before, and I believe no one else has.  The closest I've come to finding it is in classical music.  Check out the brighter side of Schnittke.  There are classical music forums, also. 

I'm just now listening at progsteaming the new Andy Tillson album. And surprisingly enough, it's a fusion album that bears a strong resemblance to the style of fusion Miles pioneered back in the sixties.  Go figure.

Ok I'll make this easy in order to end the debate. For those whole believe Miles Davis was or was not at the forefront of prog being one of the pioneers, here's an essay for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_fusionConsidering you all love to write, I dare you to write one based on this wiki page while researching the topic via other sources on the net to come up with your own explanatory conclusion based on facts.

Kati wrote: Angelo wrote: Kati wrote: Rednight wrote: Great song defiled by the back-up band of a no-talent. Go blog her site with this info. Rednight, by referring to her, I think I am the only one here to be referred as her. I do not have a blog and you are not a nice person either. Hmmmm... I think he meant Miley, Kati, not you. I see that too now Angelo. I feel really bad and regret very much writing what I did.  My stupidity amazes me sometimes.