Does Miles Davis belong in Prog? |
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Argonaught
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 04 2012 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 13:37 | |||
LTIA in my collection is listed as jazz, because to a listener without previous knowledge (prejudice?) of KC it would likely feel more like jazz than commonly defined rock.
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Lŕ, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 14:15 | |||
Miles Davis doesn't belong to PA - he had never done AOR albums. Shame on him.
Miles Davis doesn't belong to PA - he had done some funky music. Progsters don't funk, they're too white for that. Miles Davis doesn't belong to PA - he had never played on a 12-strings guitar. Miles Davis doesn't belong to PA - he had never covered the Beatles. No Beatles, no prog, that's simple. Yeah, it's pure trolling, but I don't even regret it. Edited by CPicard - December 10 2014 at 14:15 |
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zravkapt
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 12 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6446 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 16:04 | |||
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Magma America Great Make Again
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Angelo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 16:19 | |||
The argument is moot... one poll, in which only a subset of PA members participates as proof of a case? I don't think so. Miles is here, Miles can stay where he is, and the albums to prove him worthy are there as well. No offence meant, but it can be as simple as that.
Edited by Angelo - December 10 2014 at 16:20 |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 12 2009 Location: Coolwood Status: Offline Points: 6467 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 18:21 | |||
But did he ever make use of a mellotron? That alone would qualify him for PA. If he never did, then no, he does not qualify.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 12 2009 Location: Coolwood Status: Offline Points: 6467 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 18:29 | |||
Its placing is one of the weirder aspects of this site, (and I am surprised by how much further up it is than Bitches Brew) but for some reason it is popular amongst rockers and a good gateway into Jazz. I highly recommend it, but perhaps only after trying out the fusion albums first.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Evolver
Special Collaborator Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams Joined: October 22 2005 Location: The Idiocracy Status: Offline Points: 5482 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 21:10 | |||
Well... I once worked for the largest jazz festival producer in the world, and as such I saw Miles Davis many times, even met him a few times, and all of that is irrelevant to this discussion.
Miles was an innovator of electric fusion. His early fusion albums were somewhat nebulous. But the airy nature and open sound provides the backbone of the very early seventies fusion sound. It was imitated by many of his protégés, as well as a number of other respected artists. Even rock bands imitated his style. Have you ever heard Soft Machine's Fourth through Seventh albums? His later years have him blending funk into that sound. Progressive rock? No. Progressive fusion? Absolutely. And we have chosen to include progressive fusion on the site. And fusion is a form of rock, as well as jazz. So yes. He absolutely belongs. And I will oppose anyone who tries to have him removed. I wonder if some of those who don't want him here question other tenuous sub-genres. Electronic? I love it. I'm glad it's here. But is most of it rock? Hell no. And Kraftwerk? I haven't heard an album of theirs that I consider prog. Jam bands? Very few are prog. But we have quite a few here. What's so progressive about extended jamming? Hmmmmm... sounds very much like some fusion. My point is that we all have different views of what is prog and what isn't. And apparently enough of us think each of the genres we include here is legitimate to warrant their inclusion. So my advice: don't get so damned worked up over it. Now I'm going to keep rereading Kati's "bounce bounce bounce" post... if my poor heart can take it.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 13523 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 22:02 | |||
Well said. I think people get caught up on the "Rock" of Progressive Rock. Personally I never use the term Progressive Rock probably because I include under the umbrella of Prog many bands who wouldn't be classified as Rock. Tangerine Dream comes to mind, heck Art Zoyd isn't a Rock band. Miles Fusion period is more Rock than the two I just mentioned. Anyway as I said before i'm so glad he's here under Jazz/Fusion, probably the sub-genre that has brought me the most satisfaction over the past five years.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Kati
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 22:03 | |||
hahahahaha!!!! hahaha... hug and more hugs hahaha.. I am laughing here Evolver, thank you xxx
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 22:16 | |||
Bitches Brew belongs here. in less degree that "Their Satanic Majesties request" belongs here
Whoever says that this is not closer to Prog than all Miles Davis discography, is wrong (IMO of course)
But nobody sane will add RS for that sole album.....In the same way Miles shouldn't be here |
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 27 2006 Location: The Beach Status: Offline Points: 13523 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 22:18 | |||
If I can add one more thing that may have already been said, Miles wouldn't even be on here if it wasn't for his Jazz/Fusion period. I mention that because there are many Jazz greats who never had a Jazz/Fusion period and those wouldn't even have been considered for this site because of that. It's this site's policy though that the whole discography of an artist be included here weather the albums are Prog or not. So yeah it's a strange thing to see Kind Of Blue on a Prog album chart in my opinion, but Bitches Brew for sure. Miles in this Jazz/Fusion period at one point had two or three guitarists on stage, a drummer, a bass player just like most Rock bands. Like return To Forever always had a guitarist, Nucleus etc.
Anyway i'm done now with this, as Angelo says Miles isn't going anywhere else but it's an interesting discussion, but I think the Collabs made the right choice back then.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 22:22 | |||
Well....Bee Gees and Stevie Wonder used Mellotron........But they don't belong here. Does anybody also believe that having A kind of Blue in the top 100 Prog albums is misleading? There was no Prog, or Proto or nothing prog related in 1959
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Kati
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 22:28 | |||
I second what Ivan said too! yes jaja yep si sim da ahum oui
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 22:31 | |||
I love Kati, it's like having a personal cheerleader. I wish I had that luck in high school....But I remember I studied in an only male school, so better I didn't. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 10 2014 at 22:32 |
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Kati
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: December 10 2014 at 22:40 | |||
Ha! No wonder you became so clever! hahaha yes I happily agree with things you say, because you do say great and insightful things, Ivan! big hug
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Kati
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: December 11 2014 at 03:33 | |||
Ivan, this is so good even better than Zhamfir with the good the bad and the ugly. This I must dedicate to you, it's so beautiful xxxx
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
Posted: December 11 2014 at 06:58 | |||
Yes, I agree. I have no problem with Davis being on PA but A Kind of Blue clearly does not belong in a list of Top prog albums.
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: December 11 2014 at 07:03 | |||
I feel the same, but there is sadly nothing that can be done about it from a software p.o.v. The site is not able to weed out non-prog albums from the real McCoy. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 11 2014 at 07:06 | |||
Hi Kati and Padraig, sorry, Miles is not prog. Jazz fusion isn't, either. ;-) |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: December 11 2014 at 07:10 | |||
^I actually agree. I don't consider large parts of the Krautrock, folk, Indo raga, avant, electronic, zeuhl, post rock and metal subs as prog either, although I think they all deserve to be here....just like Miles does for being instrumental in pushing forth the fusion brand.
Edited by Guldbamsen - December 11 2014 at 07:16 |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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