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Topic ClosedHas the flame finally gone out?

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Meltdowner View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 06:57
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Hackett is an exception to the rule.  He spent those golden years having a giant ass clamp put on his creativity. He had to get out of Genesis to shine ...as did Gabriel.  As did Collins LOL  Even Rutherford.

I think that means...  well...Tony Banks is the devil I tell yah
I'm listening to the last Hackett original studio album and it's even better than the previous one.

I think the exceptions should be discussed as well. After all, they are proof that the flame hasn't gone out. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 09:03
Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

As long as bored 15-year-old boys are still around and sneaking into their fathers' dens to discover and pull out that battered copy of Yes' Fragile for a spin, there's still hope...

I know lot's of smart young musicians in particular who have had the same experience with Fragile and CTTE--blown away by the timeless unique sound----Wink  Not going to be true of a lot of prog but certainly these records.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 10:30
Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


^And young people don't listen to Korn together? I guess my grand kids must be exceptions. LOL

Your response is full of corn.
It must be tough to be a grumpy old coot. I personally wouldn't know as I still live like there's no tomorrow. So you have my  deepest sympathy. Not. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 11:59
Maybe a lot of the extremely influential classic artists and most of the younger bands trying to capture, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. Consider the case of Colour Haze, Goat, Papir and so on. Even then, I think there's plenty of newer artists that can trace either their style or their ethos back to the progressive rock and psychedelia of 1960s/1970s, even though they don't sound much like them - as a result of having evolved along with the direction of music history since then: Bands like Aluk Todolo, Dark Buddha Rising, the currently-being-evaluated-for-PA Morbus Chron and of course Virus.

This is kind of what I were thinking about, when I started that "generation gaps" thread.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 12:46
I am actually more surprised when a classic artist does release a brilliant album. Steve Hackett definitely breathed new fire into his career in his later years as did PFM with Stati. I wasn't expecting anything it just happened. That is where I stand, not looking for the old favorites to recapture my interest. If they do, fine. My expectations ride on newer acts to blow me away.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2014 at 21:56
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Maybe a lot of the extremely influential classic artists and most of the younger bands trying to capture, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. Consider the case of Colour Haze, Goat, Papir and so on. Even then, I think there's plenty of newer artists that can trace either their style or their ethos back to the progressive rock and psychedelia of 1960s/1970s, even though they don't sound much like them - as a result of having evolved along with the direction of music history since then: Bands like Aluk Todolo, Dark Buddha Rising, the currently-being-evaluated-for-PA Morbus Chron and of course Virus.

This is kind of what I were thinking about, when I started that "generation gaps" thread.

Not on topic, but this band has just now been added.Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 00:36
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Hackett is an exception to the rule.  He spent those golden years having a giant ass clamp put on his creativity. He had to get out of Genesis to shine ...as did Gabriel.  As did Collins LOL  Even Rutherford.

I think that means...  well...Tony Banks is the devil I tell yah
I'm listening to the last Hackett original studio album and it's even better than the previous one.

I think the exceptions should be discussed as well. After all, they are proof that the flame hasn't gone out. Smile
I can't agree more. There're a lot of new efforts from some of the artists from the olden days who are still creating some precious gems. Hackett I agree is one of them for sure. Adrian Belew, Henry Kaiser, some of the guys from Jade Warrior. I have rather spotty incomplete collections of newer (younger) artists mostly because I spend god awful amounts of money of guitar effects devices in place of some of the CD buying that I would otherwise do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 02:16
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I seem to remember though that prog was actually 'cool'. Keith Emerson and his motorbike were a photo feature in some magazine around 1977 and a few kids would show that around the school. It was even just about the music as we tend to believe now. The bands got old and there were no one who could replace the sort of macho charisma that the likes of Keith Emerson had imo.
LOL! How much it's all subjective! For example, for me and my circle, Keith Emerson in the pictures you mentioned ( I know these pics well, German mag BRAVO was full of them)  was awful & so un-proggy (actually it was more like SWEET and others from 70s glam rock scene ).

But prog had a popularity well beyond the likes of you and me at that time which was the point I was  making. Perhaps people prefer the exclusiveness of it now and the fact that it has no real widespread appeal.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 05:11
Rush is bigger that ever. The last couple of albums are really good and live they are in a very high level

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there are no second chances.
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Always live for today.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 05:38
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

  I can't agree more. There're a lot of new efforts from some of the artists from the olden days who are still creating some precious gems. Hackett I agree is one of them for sure. Adrian Belew, Henry Kaiser, some of the guys from Jade Warrior. I have rather spotty incomplete collections of newer (younger) artists mostly because I spend god awful amounts of money of guitar effects devices in place of some of the CD buying that I would otherwise do.
As expected from HackettFan. Tongue I never listened to any Adrian Belew album but I did listen to some tracks and they were really good. I do the other way around: I spend my money on records instead of upgrading my guitar gear.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 08:00
Originally posted by Prog Sothoth Prog Sothoth wrote:

Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Maybe a lot of the extremely influential classic artists and most of the younger bands trying to capture, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. Consider the case of Colour Haze, Goat, Papir and so on. Even then, I think there's plenty of newer artists that can trace either their style or their ethos back to the progressive rock and psychedelia of 1960s/1970s, even though they don't sound much like them - as a result of having evolved along with the direction of music history since then: Bands like Aluk Todolo, Dark Buddha Rising, the currently-being-evaluated-for-PA Morbus Chron and of course Virus.

This is kind of what I were thinking about, when I started that "generation gaps" thread.

Not on topic, but this band has just now been added.Thumbs Up



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 11:59
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I seem to remember though that prog was actually 'cool'. Keith Emerson and his motorbike were a photo feature in some magazine around 1977 and a few kids would show that around the school. It was even just about the music as we tend to believe now. The bands got old and there were no one who could replace the sort of macho charisma that the likes of Keith Emerson had imo.

I recall that picture and remember a later one of Emerson perched on a Harley in a People magazine article (of all mags), taken along the boardwalk at Santa Monica Beach.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 12:22
I think the flame is just fine.

As long as humans have a pulse, many will feel the need to make music and/or listen.  What we listen to will be driven by our personal tastes, no great mystery there.  Old and new, across many styles, music has never waned in its importance to me.  It will always be perhaps the most important artistic pleasure I take in this life and I feel so fortunate to have so many rich choices all around me. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 12:25
Post of the day for me JimClap

Mostly because I know you mean that with every fibre of your body.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 15:48
Thanks my friend.  We spend far too much time and too many keystrokes debating "the scene" and worrying about other people's tastes.  People like what they like, and there's nothing wrong with that.  Let's move on.  My main concern at this point is trying to return some love and feedback to the artists, whom I would guess appreciate some attention as much as any monetary gain.  Every second spent judging/handwringing over the minutia of the scene is time not spent listening, absorbing, and giving back to the heart of the artist community.  That is something I'm committed to, whether here or elsewhere, and the rest of the "debates" matter not to me.  Heart


Edited by Finnforest - November 16 2014 at 15:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2014 at 16:26
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Thanks my friend.  We spend far too much time and too many keystrokes debating "the scene" and worrying about other people's tastes.  People like what they like, and there's nothing wrong with that.  Let's move on.  My main concern at this point is trying to return some love and feedback to the artists, whom I would guess appreciate some attention as much as any monetary gain.  Every second spent judging/handwringing over the minutia of the scene is time not spent listening, absorbing, and giving back to the heart of the artist community.  That is something I'm committed to, whether here or elsewhere, and the rest of the "debates" matter not to me.  Heart



I think that is a really good point, Jim.

As much as I enjoy coming onto the forum a few times a day, albeit briefly mostly, I regard the reviewing aspect here as the site's most important part.

A lot of people visiting this site are influenced into choosing whether to buy, or not, based upon certain reviews. This, then, becomes of huge importance to those artists not lucky enough to have millions in the bank account (i.e. most of them).

Mostly, I think the site does this function really well. It is also far more rewarding than handwringing over the minutia!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2014 at 09:48
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Hackett is an exception to the rule.  He spent those golden years having a giant ass clamp put on his creativity. He had to get out of Genesis to shine ...as did Gabriel.  As did Collins LOL  Even Rutherford.

I think that means...  well...Tony Banks is the devil I tell yah
I'm listening to the last Hackett original studio album and it's even better than the previous one.

I think the exceptions should be discussed as well. After all, they are proof that the flame hasn't gone out. Smile

I believe Tony Banks wanted to share a percentage of writing with Steve Hackett... as I can pick up in interviews with Banks where he is endlessly bragging about Hackett's contributions to Wind And Wuthering. I believe Tony Banks is very picky and very detailed to a point where he might reject an idea from another band member that is solid and extremely useful and only because he hears the idea taking the piece far from where the original sounding art form of it developed. So...if we were to place most rejected ideas from Rutherford, Phillips, Hackett, Collins. and Gabriel into the early Genesis music ...would Tony Banks be right? Also take in to account that Tony Banks was the main writer from the very start and schooled Rutherford, Collins, Hackett, and Phillips in the areas of composition. Just by the 4 of them working with Banks..opened up some education for them..because Banks was already a trained writer and years ahead of their musical knowledge and knowing what to do overall with the music...in the same vain that Lennon and McCartney would have or Ray Davies...or even George Harrison with "All Things Must Pass". Even though Banks was a progressive writer he had the same mindset and knew how to produce an album like a play musically. He had ideas for certain chord voicings that would give Genesis a distinctive sound.


 Whenever I see old photographs of Rutherford, Phillips and Banks...sitting around playing acoustic guitars together..I imagine Banks instructing the both of them on chord voicings. That's how the music of Genesis developed and after Phillips departure..he went to music college to study piano and guitar. He writes piano pieces that are in the vain of Tony Banks. I'm just considering that Tony Banks was like a teacher in Genesis and being a perfectionist..he may have been difficult to work with and that revolving around his consistent picking of every detail in the music to be totally perfect. Selling England By The Pound and The Lamb are perfect and I only say this because they feel complete and perfectly done as an art. I do not know if members of Genesis feel the opposite of that. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2014 at 10:00
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^I'm not so sure Todd, as Roundabout by Yes was generally played on FM radio as a 'single edit', so the 3 minute song actually invaded all areas of radio. It was only late night FM that played unedited tracks from prog albums. Remember Allison Steele, The Night Bird?


I'm sorry..I don't understand why you are communicating this point to me. Did I say something to make you think I would disagree with this point? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2014 at 10:48
The flame hasn't gone out. It's just not burning as strongly in the specific areas that it once did in the 70's. Let's forget about the seven and the zero and how annoying that is and focus on what is missing. The difference between then and now. First example: Spooky Tooth were a British Rock band ..except for Gary Wright who was from New Jersey. They were a crossover of Blues, Gospel, Hard Rock and a "dark" sounding backdrop of chords and time changes that were more evident in Progressive Rock. The aspect to their music that sounded progressive gave their music a personality. As a band ..they were completely different from other bands in their approach to composition. There were many bands from this time period experimenting with Prog elements ..yet they were internationally known as "ROCK" bands. Today this would be labeled as Proto-Prog. In the 90's I waited for October Project to release another cd and they were dropped from the label. Many modern artists have produced Proto-Prog, but not to the amount of artists in the 70's. So it seems as if work has decreased in this day and age. It's either work or people in general losing interest in music that might contain more than 4 chords. 


It is a content feeling to be secluded in a room listening to the Chateau d"Herouville Sessions by Jethro Tull. There is no need for an audience. Prog should remain on the underground forever and truly those are the best options to take considering that today's independent artist will forever remain independent. You're suppose to represent yourself today because supposedly there are no more record companies. Networking, You Tube, Craig's List, ...you know? all these bones thrown to us and we can only go as far as our luck will take us. It's 2014 and I land many more worthwhile connections in the music business when I play in a priceless venue. That is where the agents, managers, musicians, give you opportunities to be a session musician for a well known artist or auditioning. Everything still happens on the spot, during live transmission..and all or most of the important deals are "hands on" situations" . Everyone texts and e-mails , but everyone meets physically to offer connections...which is to say that you must be in these places to follow through and not home on the computer. In that sense, things are still as they were in the 70's. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2014 at 15:51
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

There is plenty of great progressive music begging to be heard outside the "Big Five". If we want the flame of non-mainstream music to survive, we must support the newer bands and artists, and stop pining for what has been.  No one is going to take those Seventies masterpieces away from us: now it is time to give the newcomers (many of whom are not so new any longer) a chance.


As always, what Raff said. Smile




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