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Argonaught View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 12:02
Originally posted by Darious Darious wrote:

I somehow couldn't ever start with Magenta, things just didn't click between us, at least for now. But what baffles me a bit is why would you want to listen to analogue source through your DAC? Must be one of them tricks I didn't know about Smile

Magenta doesn't do anything for me, either, although I don't know why. Maybe I should try harder. 

I guess that I am an analog purist Geek - I have never had a stand-alone DAC, and I can't even of think what it could be used for at home .. unless your basement doubles as a vinyl pressing plant Smile. Doesn't every CD and MP3 player have an on-board DAC of sorts, because they do reproduce music, and not a sequence of ones and zeros. 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 12:21
^ CD and MP3 players decode the ones and zeros to a digital signal (which is not ones and zeros), but this signal is not as accurate as the analog signal. The DAC improves the signal to an analog equivalent signal. Like this:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 13:22
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by Darious Darious wrote:

I somehow couldn't ever start with Magenta, things just didn't click between us, at least for now. But what baffles me a bit is why would you want to listen to analogue source through your DAC? Must be one of them tricks I didn't know about Smile

Magenta doesn't do anything for me, either, although I don't know why. Maybe I should try harder. 

I guess that I am an analog purist Geek - I have never had a stand-alone DAC, and I can't even of think what it could be used for at home .. unless your basement doubles as a vinyl pressing plant Smile. Doesn't every CD and MP3 player have an on-board DAC of sorts, because they do reproduce music, and not a sequence of ones and zeros. 


Your laptop, PC, phone, iPod, Zune, Sonos, CD player, cable/satellite box...if anything is receiving a digital signal has a DAC to convert it to analog signal so you can hear it.

We don't need to get too technical on DACs but people buy stand alone DACs to help improve the sound of their digital audio, as usually the DACs in above gear is of lower quality.

Just read up on the internet about DACs and on audio websites and you can pretty easily find out where they help your audio chain sound better.
YMMV
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Darious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 02:57
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Doesn't every CD and MP3 player have an on-board DAC of sorts, because they do reproduce music, and not a sequence of ones and zeros.
You're right, but MP3 players' DACs are overwhelmly pretty unusable for quality sound seekers and not too many standalone CD players feature decent DACs on their boards
Writing about truth is a little bit like getting your dick out in public and hoping no one laughs (Steve Hogarth)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 03:14
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

people buy stand alone DACs to help improve the sound of their digital audio, as usually the DACs in above gear is of lower quality.
When you connect a standalone quality DAC to your source of zero-and-one coded music (ie CD player) you actually bypass built-in (of usually lower quality) DAC and this is when the improvement takes place - by switching lower quality DAC with the better quality one. What I didn't quite understand from the previous post was why would one actually want to connect a DAC to a turntable, if a turntable already generates analogue signal and DACs are digital to analogue converters? Where's the trick, I wonder?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 04:06
Originally posted by Darious Darious wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

people buy stand alone DACs to help improve the sound of their digital audio, as usually the DACs in above gear is of lower quality.
When you connect a standalone quality DAC to your source of zero-and-one coded music (ie CD player) you actually bypass built-in (of usually lower quality) DAC and this is when the improvement takes place - by switching lower quality DAC with the better quality one. What I didn't quite understand from the previous post was why would one actually want to connect a DAC to a turntable, if a turntable already generates analogue signal and DACs are digital to analogue converters? Where's the trick, I wonder?

I have found another, literally and figuratively less circuitous way of enhancing my listening experience at home: I removed all digital components from the signal path, got rid of some unnecessary items in the living room, and cleared earwax from my ears .. it's so much better now!

I do use digital while driving and doing yard work, but when you have the car engine (or lawn mower) sound for ambient noise, it's not the quality of your DAC that interferes with your listening experience the most.

As to why and where Mr. Progbethyname plugs in his discrete DAC, that it something we may never find out Confused ... the TT USB output? Maybe it's just the Way of the Ancestors in the DAC LAND (wherein he dwelleth, as per his profile) 



 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 04:18
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ CD and MP3 players decode the ones and zeros to a digital signal (which is not ones and zeros), but this signal is not as accurate as the analog signal. The DAC improves the signal to an analog equivalent signal. Like this:



This graph looks a little bit like stylized Rio de Janeiro skyline:

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Darious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 04:27
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

As to why and where Mr. Progbethyname plugs in his discrete DAC, that it something we may never find out Confused ... the TT USB output? Maybe it's just the Way of the Ancestors in the DAC LAND (wherein he dwelleth, as per his profile)
I thought about it, but to let your TT convert a pure analogue signal to digital and then connect a DAC to let it convert the digitalised signal back to analogue is.. not too proggy at all, to say the least. TT USB was meant to help folks digitalise their highly valued records, which is a great opportunity to produce some very own high resolution fantastic files, and to preserve the quality of degrading vinyls, but I cannot think about using it as a straightforward playback throuh un-dacing and in-dacing analogue signal. It's just weird, innit? How could this possibly improve the quality of sound? I do not personally think it's possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 05:12
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ CD and MP3 players decode the ones and zeros to a digital signal (which is not ones and zeros), but this signal is not as accurate as the analog signal. The DAC improves the signal to an analog equivalent signal. Like this:



This graph looks a little bit like stylized Rio de Janeiro skyline:


Indeed! LOL

This DAC talk reminded me of something my Digital Electronics professor once said in a class: "The digital signal is perfect for music, although those self-righteous audiophiles might tell you otherwise". I was the only one offended by those words. Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 09:56
I think Argo was kidding with respect to his pressing in your basement....
 
There are people who do use an ADC-DAC processor from vinyl to create a digital file. They can then manipulate the file and create hi rez digital files in 24/96 or 24/192 and now even convert them to DSD64/128 files if they have a DSD DAC.
 
This comes in handy if you are all digital files and what you listen to is not available as hi-res digital downloads...pretty much all prog is not available as hi-rez downloads.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 14:50
This guy does a nice job with his vinyl to his ADC recorded to 24/96. To hear the full resolution you need a DAC that can handle 24/96, which most can.
You get a very good idea of what a well thought out analog rig can do with vinyl
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 17:14
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I think Argo was kidding with respect to his pressing in your basement....

I was, but sometimes people do find unexpected things in their basements Confused 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 11:35
Had a wonderful session last night with this one
 
 
I was really enjoying it...They really hit this one out of the park as far as sound quality, detail of the production, the mix is outstanding. Its such a joy to hear the extended version of these songs on vinyl, I also spun my original vinyl copy and for sure there is a big difference in sound quality.
 
It was a good night last night.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 13:01
^ I love that album! When you say extended version, it's compared with the original vinyl or the CD?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 17:13
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ I love that album! When you say extended version, it's compared with the original vinyl or the CD?
 
Vinyl....it was cut back to just 1LP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 17:26
^ Isn't the album too short for a double LP? I was just seeing the differences in the original LP and they cut my favourite tracks. That's cruel Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 17:28
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

 
Vinyl....it was cut back to just 1LP

Which corroborates the notion that an album doesn't have to be 60+ minutes long to feel whole and complete. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 17:37
The original 1994 vinyl issue, songs were shortened to make it a 1-LP issue....the 2014 remix/remaster includes the full length songs so hence it is a 2-LP issue. I believe these songs were shortened compared to the CD issue: Poles Apart, Marooned, Wearing the Inside Out, Coming Back to Life, Lost for Words, and High Hopes. Just High Hopes is almost 2 minutes longer on the 2014 edition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 17:51
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

 
Vinyl....it was cut back to just 1LP

Which corroborates the notion that an album doesn't have to be 60+ minutes long to feel whole and complete. 
I also don't like much albums with more than one hour, but PF is the exception for me Wink

Also, when I know very well the full version I hate shorter versions, like when I listen to the version of 'Shine On' from 'Echoes', I really miss that third guitar solo Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 18:03
^ I have already written this somewhere: almost all Top 20 albums on PA are between 40 and 50 minutes long. None is even close to 60 minutes, and only one is shorter than 40. 
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