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Black Sabbath and unusual time signatures |
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KingCrInuYasha 
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Joined: September 26 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1281 |
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 Topic: Black Sabbath and unusual time signaturesPosted: October 13 2014 at 17:46 |
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I've read that Black Sabbath started out as a blues and jazz band and those elements kind of leaked into some of their songs. I've been trying out figure out the time signature for three of their songs - "The Wizard", "Cornucopia" and "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath". Any idea what they are?
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Ludjak
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Posted: October 13 2014 at 18:47 |
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As far as I can remember, all three tunes are in 4/4 (although "Cornucopia" is mostly a shuffle, and "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" goes into a shuffle-like groove towards the end as well). There are a couple of syncopated beats here and there, possibly hinting at the blues/jazz connection you mentioned.
"Planet Caravan" is probably the closest thing to "jazz" that Sabbath ever recorded, though. They did make humble, but honest efforts to experiment in their early years.
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KingCrInuYasha
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Posted: October 13 2014 at 19:19 |
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I drummed along to the songs in my head and your explanation makes sense. Thanks.
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He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: October 18 2014 at 19:02 |
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Always thought Cornucopia had some strange rhythm.....
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SteveG
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Posted: October 18 2014 at 19:16 |
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13/16, 7/8, 11/16. What was the question again?
Edited by SteveG - October 18 2014 at 19:23 |
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: October 18 2014 at 21:40 |
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Sabbath never really did odd-times sigs, though the intro to Computer God has some 7/8 riff at the start.
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rogerthat
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Posted: October 18 2014 at 23:52 |
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^^^ Yup. That, and also the intro to Master of Insanity is kind of jazzy. But that's it.
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Prog_Traveller
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Posted: October 19 2014 at 22:38 |
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Not sure about odd time signatures but they did some pretty prog sounding stuff imo including some things from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
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SteveG
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Posted: October 20 2014 at 09:57 |
Edited by SteveG - October 21 2014 at 15:10 |
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: October 23 2014 at 03:20 |
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Moved to the prog related part of the forum.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 23 2014 at 04:02 |
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You don't have to read about the blues & jazz influence, you can hear it all
through their music, heavy metal is essentially
blues-based. As for odd times, I think if they had imposed
odd sigs the music would'nt have had the appeal or impact that it
did.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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SteveG
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Posted: October 23 2014 at 10:41 |
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^Agreed. Good point.
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Svetonio
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Posted: October 23 2014 at 21:38 |
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Don't know so much about those unusual time signatures regarding a hard rock band as Black Sabbath as well. Imho, the most proggy songs by them are A National Acrobat, Gipsy, Johnny Blade, Juniors Eyes, Air Dance & The Sign Of Southern Cross.
Edited by Svetonio - October 23 2014 at 21:39 |
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TODDLER
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Posted: October 24 2014 at 11:25 |
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"The Wizard" swings and there are many times when Bill Ward will be accenting significant hits during his rolls or what drummer used to call back then..."Roundhouses". This is a drum technique applied during the "Swing era" Ringo Starr used to play like this in 64' and 65' where it's clearly demonstrated on early recordings of The Beatles..that he has the ability to play "Big Band Jazz". I like the harp playing. It's a very interesting "dark" kind of Rock song and not just some fly by night attempt to sound heavy and dark with copy cat elements.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: October 25 2014 at 06:29 |
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^ You mention 'The Wizard'.
Yes, Bill did put in some clever playing for this tune, and he was definitely a fine drummer throughout his tenure with the band. Funny info here, just yesterday, I took my afternoon smoko, and this big tough bald guy hopped in his 4-wheel drive and I heard Lonely Is The Word. Yeah, Dio Sabbath....... |
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dr wu23
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Posted: October 25 2014 at 08:46 |
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Don't know anything about odd time sigs but the Wizard reminds me of a 'blues rave up' and something that The Yardbirds with Beck and Page might have done.
The first Sabbath album is still my favorite.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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SteveG
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Posted: October 25 2014 at 11:20 |
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^Same for me. Black Sabbath: Black Sabbath is an absolute classic!
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: October 25 2014 at 14:55 |
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I love the dramatic tempo change halfway through "Megalomania" from the Sabotage album. Almost 40 years later, I still headbang to that epic monster of a song.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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Icarium
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Posted: October 25 2014 at 16:18 |
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Soundgarden were often called "what Black Sabbath would have sounded like, if they Incorporated odd-time signatures"
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greatnorthstar
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Posted: July 15 2018 at 06:57 |
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just to resurrect an old thread. the live version of 'wicked world' on 'live at last'/'past lives' has an extended jazz section that rocks.
bill ward was schooled in jazz drumming. tony iommi is no mean jazz guitarist and geezer butler can turn his hand to any genre. this song was a staple in the set up until '73/'74 and there are many bootleg versions of these tune with breakout improvised jazz sections in the middle. recommended.
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SteveG wrote: