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HolyMoly 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
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 Posted: September 03 2014 at 09:08 |
 SteveG wrote:
HolyMoly wrote:
How did we get here? I'm lost.
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I compared modern day prog to the later Roman Empire by saying it had 'barbarian' influences. Which is not always a bad thing.
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I guess I need to read back further and see what I missed, but that makes it a little clearer.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 09:07 |
Edited by Polymorphia - September 03 2014 at 09:09
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 09:06 |
^ I am one of the Barbarian Goths.  Kneel before me, heathen. 
Edited by SteveG - September 03 2014 at 09:24
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7849
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 09:03 |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:52 |
HolyMoly wrote:
How did we get here? I'm lost.
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I compared modern day prog to the later Roman Empire by saying it had 'barbarian' influences. Which is not always a bad thing.
Edited by SteveG - September 03 2014 at 08:53
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:50 |
Polymorphia wrote:
^We're talking about metal now?  |
We are talking about one of Progressive Music's popular sub genres, Extreme Technical Prog Metal. It's listed in PA. I assure you.
Edited by SteveG - September 03 2014 at 08:54
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:47 |
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How did we get here? I'm lost.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:47 |
^We're talking about metal now?
Edited by Polymorphia - September 03 2014 at 08:56
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:46 |
Polymorphia wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Prog Music, The Barbarians and the Fall of the Roman Empire.
I like relate present day things to past events or institutions. It
gives me a reference for modern events. I always seem to be relating
Progressive Rock to the Fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 C.E. Not
that Prog has or will fall but the feeling or impression seems the same
to me.
The golden Era of Rome was well past when the old Empire was split into
the latin speaking Western Empire still ruled by an Emperor in Rome and
the Greek speaking Eastern Empire ruled by it's own Emperor in
Costantinople (modern day Istanbul, Turkey). The Western Roman Empire
was at first involved with multiple wars with barbarian Goths to the
north and east, Huns to the North West and Vandals that had captured all
of the Empire's Northern African colonies.
After a period of slow decline added by civil wars, the Barbarians had
come to win victories against the Western Romans and had risen to
positions of power within the Western Empire. Right up to the Emperor's
court, including high ranking military commanders.
Can you recognise the "Barbarians" that have reached within Progressive Music's court?
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 Or how about rock becoming prog rock being signified the rise of Julius Caesar and the abolition of the Roman Republic? Or how about rock music, including prog, being the barbarians that ravaged the empire of classical music that, obviously, we should all be extolling?
The barbarian comparison is a little hyperbolic methinks. Punk musicians and fans weren't uneducated or unthinking (nor did they raid villages), they just made and listened to (respectively) comparatively simpler music. |
Fair enough. But it always amazes me on how people focus on the form of a question instead of focusing on the answer to the question and that, Good Sir, is not hyperbole.
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Was "no" not direct enough? 
Unless you mean the one about recognize the Barbarians reaching within Prog's "court." You kind of have to agree with the comparison to answer the question, and I don't quite. |
Would Death growls not qualify as a 'barbarian' infuence? Perhaps I should have said Prog of the present.
Edited by SteveG - September 03 2014 at 08:47
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:44 |
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^Would Death growls in a prog song not qualify as a 'barbarian' influence?
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:43 |
SteveG wrote:
And despite their stereotype, most barbarians were not uneducated, did not raid villages to start off with (save the Huns) and were far from unthinking. Most people I know, and probably yourself, are a descendent of some form of European Germanic or Nordic 'barbarian' culture or tribes.
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I agree (village-raid jokes aside), and I don't necessarily love the Roman Empire either, but what was your comparison supposed to mean then? My main problem with the question is that it seemed to set up the idea that punk was inferior to prog, because many people view barbaric cultures as inferior to Empires considered ripe with cultural advancement, and to answer it seemed to require that I agree with that assessment.
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:36 |
SteveG wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Prog Music, The Barbarians and the Fall of the Roman Empire.
I like relate present day things to past events or institutions. It
gives me a reference for modern events. I always seem to be relating
Progressive Rock to the Fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 C.E. Not
that Prog has or will fall but the feeling or impression seems the same
to me.
The golden Era of Rome was well past when the old Empire was split into
the latin speaking Western Empire still ruled by an Emperor in Rome and
the Greek speaking Eastern Empire ruled by it's own Emperor in
Costantinople (modern day Istanbul, Turkey). The Western Roman Empire
was at first involved with multiple wars with barbarian Goths to the
north and east, Huns to the North West and Vandals that had captured all
of the Empire's Northern African colonies.
After a period of slow decline added by civil wars, the Barbarians had
come to win victories against the Western Romans and had risen to
positions of power within the Western Empire. Right up to the Emperor's
court, including high ranking military commanders.
Can you recognise the "Barbarians" that have reached within Progressive Music's court?
|
Or how about rock becoming prog rock being signified the rise of Julius Caesar and the abolition of the Roman Republic? Or how about rock music, including prog, being the barbarians that ravaged the empire of classical music that, obviously, we should all be extolling?
The barbarian comparison is a little hyperbolic methinks. Punk musicians and fans weren't uneducated or unthinking (nor did they raid villages), they just made and listened to (respectively) comparatively simpler music. |
Fair enough. But it always amazes me on how people focus on the form of a question instead of focusing on the answer to the question and that, Good Sir, is not hyperbole.
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Was "no" not direct enough?
Unless you mean the one about recognize the Barbarians reaching within Prog's "court." You kind of have to agree with the comparison to answer the question, and I don't quite.
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 13313
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:22 |
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As many said before, it was a combination of factors. As many other genres, what we call prog survived, like jazz, classical, etc, due to the fact that is music to be appreciated. Genres like disco and others did not have such luck, due to the fact that substantially, the music did not have very much to offer, nor did it contribute to the development of music itself.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 08:21 |
Polymorphia wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Prog Music, The Barbarians and the Fall of the Roman Empire.
I like relate present day things to past events or institutions. It
gives me a reference for modern events. I always seem to be relating
Progressive Rock to the Fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 C.E. Not
that Prog has or will fall but the feeling or impression seems the same
to me.
The golden Era of Rome was well past when the old Empire was split into
the latin speaking Western Empire still ruled by an Emperor in Rome and
the Greek speaking Eastern Empire ruled by it's own Emperor in
Costantinople (modern day Istanbul, Turkey). The Western Roman Empire
was at first involved with multiple wars with barbarian Goths to the
north and east, Huns to the North West and Vandals that had captured all
of the Empire's Northern African colonies.
After a period of slow decline added by civil wars, the Barbarians had
come to win victories against the Western Romans and had risen to
positions of power within the Western Empire. Right up to the Emperor's
court, including high ranking military commanders.
Can you recognise the "Barbarians" that have reached within Progressive Music's court?
|
Or how about rock becoming prog rock being signified the rise of Julius Caesar and the abolition of the Roman Republic? Or how about rock music, including prog, being the barbarians that ravaged the empire of classical music that, obviously, we should all be extolling?
The barbarian comparison is a little hyperbolic methinks. Punk musicians and fans weren't uneducated or unthinking (nor did they raid villages), they just made and listened to (respectively) comparatively simpler music. |
Fair enough. But it always amazes me on how people focus on the form of a question instead of focusing on the answer to the question and that, Good Sir, is not hyperbole. And despite their stereotype, most barbarians were not uneducated, did not raid villages to start off with (save the Huns) and were far from unthinking. Most people I know, and probably yourself, are a descendent of some form of European Germanic or Nordic 'barbarian' culture or tribes.
Edited by SteveG - September 03 2014 at 08:30
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1038
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 07:34 |
freyacat wrote:
You can't just say that one form of music came and destroyed another form of music. The music by itself doesn't do anything. Rather, the fans changed. Robert Fripp noted that in the sixties, fans expected rock music to be the "voice of god." Progressive rock tried to live up to that by being a voice worth listening to. But it was incredibly idealistic, and I think it was hard to keep that idealism up forever. Midway through the seventies, I think everyone realized that it took more than a record to change the world, and the whole generation got a little older, stopped sitting in front of their record players all day, got jobs, and had kids. Meanwhile, a subsequent generation wanted to distinguish itself. It couldn't get more complex and idealistic, so it opted for image (disco) and attitude (punk). The pretension of the punks was that they were more "authentic" than the prog rockers. In retrospect, this was just another marketing ploy. |
For all the torrents of verbiage that have been produced about this subject on PA I think this is the closest anyone has come to nailing it. 
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 04:01 |
lucas wrote:
Prog killed itself...
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This.
PWEI - Prog will eat itself.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 02:43 |
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That's too easy: prog hit its peak in the mid to late '70s, but, no, punk shlock didn't kill off prog (How silly!); it only diverted the attention of youngsters elsewhere who otherwise might have given prog a go. As surely witnessed by this blog site, others took their place.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65245
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 02:12 |
SteveG wrote:
^Prog: Does it prefer Warm Or Cold climates?  |
I'd say cold-- it keeps the progress fresh.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: September 03 2014 at 01:03 |
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13050
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Posted: September 02 2014 at 22:53 |
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I believe prog, and rock in general, was killed by the band BostonStyxREOJourneyBadCompanyForeigner.
They started playing that bullsh*t on every rock station and everything went to hell.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Did Punk Rock really kill Prog Music?
