Led Zeppelin Reissues Part II

KingCrInuYasha wrote: It doesn't sound too bad. Plant's voice on other hand... LSDisease wrote: Maybe these reissues will finally include the complete credit lists. Jimmy Page never wrote a single original song, all ripped off. Okay, to settle this once and for all, here are the songs that Zepp did rip off.White Summer (trad., "She Moved Trough The Fair", best covered by Davey Graham, various versions in the mid to late 1960s)Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You (written by Anne Brendon in the late 1950s, best covered by Joan Baez in Joan Baez In Concert, Part 1, 1962)Dazed And Confused (Jake Holmes, from The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes, 1967)Black Mountain Side (trad. "Black Water Side", best covered by Bert Jansch, from Jack Orion, 1966)How Many More Times ("How Many More Years" by Howlin' Wolf, single released in (1951) and "The Hunter" by Albert King, from Born Under A Bad Sign, 1967)Whole Lotta Love (based/ripped off from "You Need Love'" by Willie Dixon and  performed by Muddy Waters; released as a single in 1962)The Lemon Song (Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor", single released in 1964, with some Robert Johnson thrown in)Living Loving Maid (more or less based on "Nervous Breakdown" by Eddie Cochran, from Never To Be Forgotten, recorded in the second half of the 1950s, released 1962)Moby Dick (based/ripped off of "Watch Your Step" by Bobby Parker, single released in 1961)Bring It On Home (ripped off from Willie Dixon song of the same name, performed by Sonny Boy Williamson, single released in 1966)Traveling Riverside Blues (ripped off from Robert Johnson, 1937)Since I've Been Loving You (based/ripped off from "Never" by Bob Mosley, performed by Moby Grape, from Wow/Grape Jam, 1968)Tangerine (original from Yardbirds "Know That I'm Losing You", 1968, but some involvement from Keith Relf, IIRC)Hats Off To Roy Harper (ripped off from "Shake 'Em On Down" by Bukka White, single released in 1937)Stairway To Heaven (main melody ripped off from "Taurus" by Randy California, performed by Spirit, from Spirit, 1968)When The Levee Breaks (ripped off from Kansas Joe McCoy and Memphis Minnie song of the same name, single released in 1929)Custard Pie (see Hats Off To Roy Harper)In My Time Of Dying (traditional going back to "Jesus Is Going To Make My Dying Bed", fist recorded by J.C. Burnett, but first official release by Blind Willie Johnson in 1927, also recored by Bob Dylan in his self titled debut, 1962)Boogie With Stu (ripped off rom "Ooh My Head", from Ritchie Valens, from his self titled album, 1959)Nobody's Fault But Mine (traditional, first recored by Blinf Willie Johnson in 1927)The rest, as far as I know, were originals (EDIT: or properly credited covers).

To really be fair, loosen up your fingers, and type up a list of songs that Zeppelin didn't lift. I have plenty of time to wait for it. Do you?

Edited by SteveG - August 12 2014 at 14:23

It doesn't sound too bad. Plant's voice on other hand...

LSDisease wrote: Maybe these reissues will finally include the complete credit lists. Jimmy Page never wrote a single original song, all ripped off.

Okay, to settle this once and for all, here are the songs that Zepp did rip off.


White Summer (trad., "She Moved Trough The Fair", best covered by Davey Graham, various versions in the mid to late 1960s)

Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You (written by Anne Brendon in the late 1950s, best covered by Joan Baez in Joan Baez In Concert, Part 1, 1962)

Dazed And Confused (Jake Holmes, from The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes, 1967)

Black Mountain Side (trad. "Black Water Side", best covered by Bert Jansch, from Jack Orion, 1966)

How Many More Times ("How Many More Years" by Howlin' Wolf, single released in (1951) and "The Hunter" by Albert King, from Born Under A Bad Sign, 1967)

Whole Lotta Love (based/ripped off from "You Need Love'" by Willie Dixon and  performed by Muddy Waters; released as a single in 1962)

The Lemon Song (Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor", single released in 1964, with some Robert Johnson thrown in)

Living Loving Maid (more or less based on "Nervous Breakdown" by Eddie Cochran, from Never To Be Forgotten, recorded in the second half of the 1950s, released 1962)

Moby Dick (based/ripped off of "Watch Your Step" by Bobby Parker, single released in 1961)

Bring It On Home (ripped off from Willie Dixon song of the same name, performed by Sonny Boy Williamson, single released in 1966)

Traveling Riverside Blues (ripped off from Robert Johnson, 1937)

Since I've Been Loving You (based/ripped off from "Never" by Bob Mosley, performed by Moby Grape, from Wow/Grape Jam, 1968)

Tangerine (original from Yardbirds "Know That I'm Losing You", 1968, but some involvement from Keith Relf, IIRC)

Hats Off To Roy Harper (ripped off from "Shake 'Em On Down" by Bukka White, single released in 1937)

Stairway To Heaven (main melody ripped off from "Taurus" by Randy California, performed by Spirit, from Spirit, 1968)

When The Levee Breaks (ripped off from Kansas Joe McCoy and Memphis Minnie song of the same name, single released in 1929)

Custard Pie (see Hats Off To Roy Harper)

In My Time Of Dying (traditional going back to "Jesus Is Going To Make My Dying Bed", fist recorded by J.C. Burnett, but first official release by Blind Willie Johnson in 1927, also recored by Bob Dylan in his self titled debut, 1962)

Boogie With Stu (ripped off rom "Ooh My Head", from Ritchie Valens, from his self titled album, 1959)

Nobody's Fault But Mine (traditional, first recored by Blinf Willie Johnson in 1927)


The rest, as far as I know, were originals (EDIT: or properly credited covers).

Edited by KingCrInuYasha - August 12 2014 at 12:24

LSDisease wrote: KingCrInuYasha wrote: There's no denying the first part, but I don't think you would know average if you saw/heard it. I can always compare to some others , Jimmy Page is one of the sloppiest guitarists I've ever heard. He's not creative not even a good musician. Something good about him? He influenced Alex Lifeson,  although I prefer Rush when Lifeson didn't want to sound like Page anymore.

Have you ever heard Page's work with the Yardbirds or his studio work with artists from Donovan to Manfred Mann? As exact as Calpton's or Beck's. Did you ever suppose that his "sloppy" playing is his style, or is that over your head?

LSDisease wrote: Mirror Image wrote:   Complete BS of course. As others have mentioned, he did steal a riff or two, but the way he developed the songs were completely his own and no one else could emulate him. He had a unique vision and I think the music speaks for itself. There's always people like you saying negative things, but history has been quite kind to Zeppelin and there's a reason why: they were all amazing musicians. No no, it's proved they stole music, and they were average musicians at best If I had a chance to delete one band from the history of music it'd be Led Zeppelin. Absolutely worthless piece of sh*t.

Edited by Mirror Image - August 12 2014 at 09:35

Mirror Image wrote:   Complete BS of course. As others have mentioned, he did steal a riff or two, but the way he developed the songs were completely his own and no one else could emulate him. He had a unique vision and I think the music speaks for itself. There's always people like you saying negative things, but history has been quite kind to Zeppelin and there's a reason why: they were all amazing musicians.

No no, it's proved they stole music, and they were average musicians at best

If I had a chance to delete one band from the history of music it'd be Led Zeppelin. Absolutely worthless piece of sh*t.


Edited by LSDisease - August 12 2014 at 06:21

Physical Graffiti is the one I am waiting for.

dr wu23 wrote: Another excuse for Page and Plant to make more money from the fans. Shame on them.

 

I bought the Super Deluxe Box set of LZ I which came with CDs, they sound very good but really to my ears as good as the vinyl issues and vice versa.
Doing A/B I detect a very slight roll off the bass/low end frequency that hangs out longer with the vinyl version. Makes the vinyl version ever so slightly fuller, beefier that's all.

I can't wait to hear LZ IV and Houses. I have the 90's CD of Houses and always felt it was thin sounding, clean and clinical but thin.

Should be good!

In the words of Igor Stravinsky, one of the 20th Century's greatest composers, "Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal." 

This business about the credits is not that simple. There is one element that music fans ignore (why?) and that is the music business. Who places the credits, who pays the publishers, who administers royalties, who supervises the distribution. The record company. Not the singer from a rock band or whoever.

Consider 1968 and 1969. Plant called the music biz people then "brigands". He should know. Spirit, Jake Holmes, The Yardbirds and Robert Plant were CBS artists for example. CBS thought they were going to get Page who was not signed to them - this was the crucial bit. At that time they were The Yardbirds but had to be renamed anyway as the Name was in the control of CBS. CBS spent years trying to get their revenge on Grant and Ertegun by re-releasing that Live Yardbirds LP all the time. Ertegun tried to get back on CBS by ensuring changes were made. The publishers ASCAP had decided Dazed was a separate work from Home's Dazed. But Plant never gets a writing credit for his work; the industry had given him a very bad, very cynical example.

This is one reason that Plant has only recently got his first credit on the first album. The powers that be set everyone such a good example, models of integrity. Holmes was credted by yhe Yardbirds for Dazed on Cumular Limit. Page wanted to do it but had to base a new nunmber around Dazed, the lyrics were changed, new music introduced and all this so the Erteh=guns would not have to play loadsa money to clive Davis boss then (and now?) of CBS.

I wonder if Joan Baez ever knew the real writer of Babe I'm Gonna leave You. They always said their version was based around her recording - gave a t a trad arr, which was correct.

But yes, many numbers were lifted and miscredited. Sections of Hoow Many More Times, Balck Mountain Side (Trad arr, is acceptable but I think it's given to Page). Lemon Song was orginally credited to C. Burentte (H. Wolf) but was changed after the first pressing. Whole Lotta Love's lyrics a sounded awfully familar when Muddy Waters sang 'em. There are musical influences blues standards which the hysterially inclined call rip offs. But these are standard styles that can be traced to many a pioneer thanks to recoded music history, not necessarily to the originator.

At this rate there would be ten musical artists credited for allmusc! Nobody's Fault is as is often the case all original bllues lyric, music Zeppelin. Wish I could remember who wrote Moby Dick. I have heard it but the title and band escapes me. But the Zeppelin version is really just the drum solo.

There are other bands doing things - Purple's Black Night riff is a Ricky Nelson B side for example. So's Child In Time. Shine On You Crazy Diamond has it's origins (rather blatantly) on the Steve Miller Band's first album. I should indicate that my sources for some are posted on this site. Keith Emerson ran into publishing trouble with classical compposers not credietd - or properly). Clapton accidentally re wrote Stairway (I was glad to read that in his auto biog, as figuring out Let It Grow made me think ... Stairway in Bm? I thought I was going mad...

I think a lot of recording history and focus on the fairly visible Zeppelin has created a bit of a monster. Humble Pie did You Need Love (also mis-credited). Plant was a Marriott fan and may have heard it there first and thought it traditional  - original writer unknown. To Zeppelin's cost this is not true but this is up to the people who run the business to know what they call their business. They were gravely let down by the guy to whom they paid tribute.

Oh yes, until recently (1990 something) Atlantic had Zeppelin on the lowest royalty rate they could get away with. The things is; one can or should not never take things at face value, certainly not complex issues.