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Topic ClosedIs Robert Fripp Overrated?
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 14:41
Originally posted by addictedtoprog addictedtoprog wrote:

-Whether Mr. Fripp is overrated...
No...certainly not...
-Whether this thread is overrated...
Certainly it is...from the number of replies to this thread..
Smart boy, you got the joke!
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Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 14:45
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Jazz is overrated as Fripp is.
I'll just pretend you didn't write that.
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Fripp wasn't good in that area [of articulation], his ideas were sometimes outrageous, but without all those instruments used on KC albums everything would be as naked as beatles let it be naked.
Again, that's just an opinion. I hear plenty of articulation.
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

So if it sounds complicated to you it's not because of Fripp's guitar work.
How do you know? You are not me. This is just a matter of perception, and you have to recognize that. I've explained why "Fracture" sounds complex to me. That's mostly a guitar-oriented piece, but by and large it's a group effort.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 25 2014 at 14:46
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Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 14:49
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

 
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Where?
for example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aUSOmjbNuQ 
That?! A video that does not quite match the audio, featuring a piece with a really easy part to play on a guitar? I don't see sloppiness in that video, to be honest.

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

3) 100% objective? Can you back that up?
I love PW because of the songs, that's my personal opinion, guitar work on that album is excellent and very precise and that's a fact.
Which is not an argument against Robert, so I don't know why you brought that up.

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Robert offered plenty of that too. Just listen to LTIA, pt. 1.
but he doesn't offer this 
Super-fast and unmemorable lines? No, Bob is not just some guy playing a classical piece (written by another guy) really fast on his guitar, and the fact that I've seen too many speed-obsessed metalheads do a rendition of a classical piece ... that's just not Fripp's style. I'm sure Robert could nail that rendition of Caprice if he chose to ... but I don't remember him ever choosing to. He is not as much of a speed-obsessed musician.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 25 2014 at 15:26
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 14:50
Fripp may not be God. But he is Buddha at least.
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Points: 6797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 15:03
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

Fripperated!!!

Shoosh! Frip will trademark that and sue you.


I think I just heard a large bunch of legal documents being pushed through the door! Confused
Help me I'm falling!
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 15:09
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:


Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

Fripperated!!!

Shoosh! Frip will trademark that and sue you.
I think I just heard a large bunch of legal documents being pushed through the door! Confused
Was it done by a short man wearing a business suit and carrying a guitar?

Edited by SteveG - July 26 2014 at 08:35
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akamaisondufromage View Drop Down
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Points: 6797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 15:25
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:


Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

Fripperated!!!

Shoosh! Frip will trademark that and sue you.
I think I just heard a large bunch of legal documents being pushed through the door! Confused
Was it done by a short man wearing a business suit and caring a guitar?


Could have been although it may have been  a woman? 


Its a Mystewy its a mistewy!
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Points: 4091 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 15:37
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

He is a bit overrated. He's very creative but his ideas go beyond his guitar abilities, so that's the problem.

Agree--plus his limited style keep him in a box.
Eh ... the man incorporated crosspicking into his style; learned from jazz and classical music; invented the New Standard tuning; jumped from psych-jazz-rock on through blues and funk on Earthbound, through dark folk on "Cirkus", through flamenco on "Exiles", through Sabbathy riffs on LTIA and Red, through New Wave-y prog, and that's still not enough? How many more hoops would you like him to jump through?

Know he is an innovator--a genius or whatever---and you seem to know more about what he's playing then me---but if the music doesn't move you what's the point of technique and innovation? ---It's just that lot's of his music is too neurotic and dark and not accessible, (like his personality --lol--I've met him)---for my ears---but glad you enjoy him. Many consider him a god---and I have lot's of his stuff---enjoy the mid-period stuff with Belew the most, but know I may be in the KC fan club minority on thatSmile.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 15:40
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:


Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:





Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:


Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

He is a bit overrated. He's very creative but his ideas go beyond his guitar abilities, so that's the problem.

Agree--plus his limited style keep him in a box.
Eh ... the man incorporated crosspicking into his style; learned from jazz and classical music; invented the New Standard tuning; jumped from psych-jazz-rock on through blues and funk on Earthbound, through dark folk on "Cirkus", through flamenco on "Exiles", through Sabbathy riffs on LTIA and Red, through New Wave-y prog, and that's still not enough? How many more hoops would you like him to jump through?



Know he is an innovator--a genius or whatever---and you seem to know more about what he's playing then me---but if the music doesn't move you what's the point of technique and innovation? ---It's just that lot's of his music is too neurotic and dark and not accessible, (like his personality --lol--I've met him)---for my ears---but glad you enjoy him. Many consider him a god---and I have lot's of his stuff---enjoy the mid-period stuff with Belew the most, but know I may be in the KC fan club minority on thatSmile.
That's why I said in my post that he is technically brilliant but if people don't like his music they will not see it.
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LSDisease View Drop Down
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Points: 494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 15:44
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

 I'll just pretend you didn't write that.


seriously, jazz a complex form music? I don't know where this opinion comes from but it's not a scientific source for sure.


[QUOTE=Dayvenkirq] Again, that's just an opinion. I hear plenty of articulation.
[/QUOTE]

sorry but I don't care what you hear, some say that Kurt Cobain was an excellent guitar player. It's not the criteria, I told you what the criteria is.


Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

How do you know? You are not me. This is just a matter of perception, and you have to recognize that. I've explained why "Fracture" sounds complex to me. That's mostly a guitar-oriented piece, but by and large it's a group effort.


we were talking about the guitar work and the guitar work in Fracture isn't complex, as far as I recognize being a guitarist for over 20 years.


Edited by LSDisease - July 25 2014 at 15:49
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LSDisease View Drop Down
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Points: 494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 15:48
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Which is not an argument against Robert, so I don't know why you brought that up.


it was just a comparsion

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Super-fast and unmemorable lines? No, Bob is not just some guy playing a classical piece (written by another guy) really fast on his guitar, and the fact that I've seen too many speed-obsessed metalheads do a rendition of a classical piece ... that's just not Fripp's style. I'm sure Robert could nail that rendition of Caprice if he chose to ... but I don't remember him ever choosing to. He is not as much of a speed-obsessed musician.


"unmemorable" that's a personal opinion nothing more nothing less. To me most of KC stuff is unmemorable and we can argue about that for another 5 hours. Does it change anything? Study it first then judge it for chrissakes.
"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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ProgPassion View Drop Down
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Points: 35 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 16:00
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

 I'll just pretend you didn't write that.


seriously, jazz a complex form music? I don't know where this opinion comes from but it's not a scientific source for sure.


[QUOTE=Dayvenkirq] Again, that's just an opinion. I hear plenty of articulation.


sorry but I don't care what you hear, some say that Kurt Cobain was an excellent guitar player. It's not the criteria, I told you what the criteria is.


Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

How do you know? You are not me. This is just a matter of perception, and you have to recognize that. I've explained why "Fracture" sounds complex to me. That's mostly a guitar-oriented piece, but by and large it's a group effort.


we were talking about the guitar work and the guitar work in Fracture isn't complex, as far as I recognize being a guitarist for over 20 years.
[/QUOTE]

No-one said Jazz is complex. Although, a fair amount of it is. The fact that you think Jazz is overrated is hilarious though. 
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Points: 494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 16:18
Originally posted by ProgPassion ProgPassion wrote:

 
No-one said Jazz is complex. Although, a fair amount of it is. The fact that you think Jazz is overrated is hilarious though. 


ok maybe I wasn't precise. But when I read all those prog heads, their ultimate argument is: jazz this, jazz that, jazz is a noble kind of music. No it's not, it was played in night clubs in the 20's and 30's America it was music to entertain people on the f... dance floor.
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 16:42
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:


<span style="line-height: 1.2;">
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Jazz is overrated as Fripp is.
I'll just pretend you didn't write that.</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;">
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Fripp wasn't good in that area [of articulation], his ideas were sometimes outrageous, but without all those instruments used on KC albums everything would be as naked as beatles let it be naked.
Again, that's just an opinion. I hear plenty of articulation.</span>
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

So if it sounds complicated to you it's not because of Fripp's guitar work.
How do you know? You are not me. This is just a matter of perception, and you have to recognize that. I've explained why "Fracture" sounds complex to me. That's mostly a guitar-oriented piece, but by and large it's a group effort.



Unless you cut that up and put it under a microscope and send it off to be analyzed by the scientific community and have at least 3 scientific papers analyzing Fripp's work to back you up, how dare you claim Fracture is complex.   
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 16:57
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

seriously, jazz a complex form music? I don't know where this opinion comes from but it's not a scientific source for sure.
I simply disagreed with your statement that jazz is overrated. I never said jazz was a complex form of music (as a whole, though sometimes it is complex). Those are two different arguments, the latter of which you just included into this discussion for no apparent reason.

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

[QUOTE=Dayvenkirq] Again, that's just an opinion. I hear plenty of articulation.
sorry but I don't care what you hear, ... .[/QUOTE]Try not to be rude. This is just a music discussion.

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

some say that Kurt Cobain was an excellent guitar player. It's not the criteria, I told you what the criteria is.
Now you are just confusing me. We were talking about articulation, but all of the sudden you are talking about excellence as a criteria. This post makes no sense.

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

How do you know? You are not me. This is just a matter of perception, and you have to recognize that. I've explained why "Fracture" sounds complex to me. That's mostly a guitar-oriented piece, but by and large it's a group effort.
we were talking about the guitar work and the guitar work in Fracture isn't complex, as far as I recognize being a guitarist for over 20 years.
The guitar work is a part of the composition. Since you have so many years of experience of playing the instrument, question: If the guitar work on "Fracture" isn't complex, than what is?

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Super-fast and unmemorable lines? No, Bob is not just some guy playing a classical piece (written by another guy) really fast on his guitar, and the fact that I've seen too many speed-obsessed metalheads do a rendition of a classical piece ... that's just not Fripp's style. I'm sure Robert could nail that rendition of Caprice if he chose to ... but I don't remember him ever choosing to. He is not as much of a speed-obsessed musician.
"unmemorable" that's a personal opinion nothing more nothing less. To me most of KC stuff is unmemorable and we can argue about that for another 5 hours.
I know. That's why we are having these discussions on this forum. If this forum was all about facts, then it would be just an informative medium, right.

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

"unmemorable" that's a personal opinion nothing more nothing less. To me most of KC stuff is unmemorable and we can argue about that for another 5 hours. Does it change anything? Study it first then judge it for chrissakes.
Study and judge what? That sentence needs an object.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 25 2014 at 17:02
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Points: 9 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 21:28
Hello there,

My VERY FIRST POST!........how exciting!   hmfff!   (he says with a nasty glint....)

No, Robert Fripp is not overrated.

&,

 .....Yes, I am a 41-year-old virgin who has never been able to secure a date or a "holding-hands session", or a kiss from any woman......and that's the d*mn truth!

So, take it from there.
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 21:34
Can't decide if providing TMI or just trolling.  Confused
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Points: 9 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 21:44
No "Doctor"......not trolling......

I remember YEARS ago, in 1995 when I met Fripp, he told me that many of his younger fans were:

 "Earnest young men with facial hair and spectacles......"

  (both of which my friend and I happened to have at that time!  ha ha)

He was right on the ball.......

and it IS a proven scientific fact, you know, that these types of men end up dying alone as virgins with their cherished copies of Lizard clutched tightly to their chests, and only their mothers to discover their decomposed cadavers weeks after the suicide.....hmmf.
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Points: 2111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 22:12
I don't think Robert Fripp is overrated. Even if he was, who cares? I sure don't. I admire his work with King Crimson and think he's one of the more original guitarists to perform this music. For me, it's Hackett, Gilmour, Fripp, Lifeson, and Howe all the way. These are THE prog rock guitarists. I'll except no substitutions.

Edited by Mirror Image - July 25 2014 at 22:12
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2014 at 23:20
Originally posted by Crimson_King Crimson_King wrote:

No "Doctor"......not trolling......

I remember YEARS ago, in 1995 when I met Fripp, he told me that many of his younger fans were:

 "Earnest young men with facial hair and spectacles......"

  (both of which my friend and I happened to have at that time!  ha ha)

He was right on the ball.......

and it IS a proven scientific fact, you know, that these types of men end up dying alone as virgins with their cherished copies of Lizard clutched tightly to their chests, and only their mothers to discover their decomposed cadavers weeks after the suicide.....hmmf.


Righteo then.  Carry on with your bad self.  Wink
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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