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Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Posted: June 08 2014 at 15:47
Yes in general hasn't held up well over the years for me. I'm more of an old Genesis guy. But Tales is a nice album. I don't cringe whenever it comes up in my rotation.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Joined: March 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2447
Posted: June 09 2014 at 13:56
Dean wrote:
moshkito wrote:
I've been saying all this for 30 years ... to the point where I just call the whole thing a symphony, which of course at least one person thinks is an insult to the word, and I don't believe it is. He just doesn't believe a symphony can be done electrically and created by our own generation! That is my opinion by the way ...
What rot. What absolute piffle. What utter tosh. If there was ever a pile of cods that were ever in need of a walloping, this is it. I for one fully believe that a symphony can be done electrically and created by our own generation! It's simply that no one has actually done it yet, not even Philip Glass, who is no stranger to contemporary music and modern "electrical" instrumentation and just about qualifies as being of "our own generation". He who has so far written 10 fully fledged symphonies (and 13 concerti) - but alas none of them "done electrically" and none of them in the genre of progressive rawk.
So whoever this "one person" is, it ain't me sunshine.
I just do not see that Tales From Topographic Oceans (or any other multi-part progressive rock album that I am aware of) qualifies as a symphony. You can call it symphonic rock or symphony-like if that appeases your delicate sensibilities but a symphony it is not. A symphony is a form, just as a rhapsody is a form and a concerto is a form (and before anyone climbs aboard some high faluting hobby-horse, Bohemian Rhapsody is neither a rhapsody nor a mini-opera, it is however, a sort-of cantata in three movements) - if the music does not fit the format then it cannot be called such, and Tales does not fit the format of a symphony just as you cannot call Sgt Peppers an opera or In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida a polka. You can call a teaspoon a charabanc if you like but you won't be able to load it up with luggage and drive it down to the beach for a summer vacation, it will however still be a mighty fine utensil for stirring tea and other sweetened beverages.
Pedantry this may be, but at least it's consistent and accurate pedantry.
Tales from Topographic Oceans is a marvellous album, my second favourite Yes album in fact (beaten only by the magnificent Relayer) and far better than the car-crash that is CTTE. It does incorporate some wondrous influences from the classical music world, including some lovely pastoral playing by Mr Wakeman but sadly being influenced by some feeling of a symphonic style is not enough. Four separate songs, however long they may be, doth not a symphony make.
moshkito wrote:
but I think that folks of our generation are far better composers of music and "experience" than a lot of complete musical scenes in the history of music. I would almost say that it even rivals the romantic scene in the late 1700's and early 1800's ... !!!
possibly. Few (if any) have ever heard the entire catalogue of late 18th and early 19th century music to make a valid comparison since much of it is now lost, though I believe the actual romantic era is later than you state here and that time frame refers to the late classical era, but I may be wrong on that...
...
..anyway. Music is not a competitive sport so you can play better/worse games if you like, I care not to.
Fantastic post Dean, as always. If posting on forums was a competitive sport, you'd win every time
I will say though, that an uninitiated person stumbling on our humble forum, might be forgiven for thinking that progressive rock, at least, is a competitive sport
Joined: June 22 2014
Location: NorCal
Status: Offline
Points: 126
Posted: July 08 2014 at 23:38
Listening to this now for the first time... been working my way through all of Yes' albums, also for the first time, in chronological order. Tips on how to appreciate this one more? Fragile and Close are so outrageously brilliant that just the act of hearing them is like having electricity constantly running through your veins... almost too intense an experience. But on this one Yes seem to have basically lost the plot. What's going on here? There are threads of tight, focused work throughout these tracks, but overall, it's too loose and chaotic. If a nod to Eastern philosophy/music and psychedelia is the point, Moody Blues did it about 1000 times better on Chord.
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
Posted: July 08 2014 at 23:46
^ I never liked Fragilethat much (what a sloppy job they did on that one). I always looked at Tales as a double-length sibling to CTTE. Both are tripped out (I mean, f$%ked-up); both have 18+ minute-long things; both have compositions that flow nicely (i.e., they don't sound patchy); both have grandiose chanting moments; and both are more experimental compared to Fragile.
Joined: June 22 2014
Location: NorCal
Status: Offline
Points: 126
Posted: July 08 2014 at 23:50
OK, onto the last track of Tales, this one is the best by far... at least on first listen. I'm going to have to try the whole thing again from the beginning while on a mind-altering substance next time, I think.
Joined: December 09 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Posted: July 10 2014 at 16:33
It's interesting to see the wide variety of opinions here. For me, it very hard to compare TFTO to CTTE and especially Thick As A Brick (which only resembles TFTO in surface-level track length).
If we're talking about just what I like...I think Close to the Edge is one of my favorite recordings of all time, easily. I like Tales, but it's style and approach is less what I want out of Yes. Mahavishnu Orchestra maybe, but not 1970s Yes.
So, really it's hard to "rate" them without it really just being a commentary on what style of prog writing you prefer. So, in that context, I think Yes shines most in the 7-10 minute range of song. It gives enough time for the songs to develop, but not too long where they seem to lose their inspiration (IMO). The song Close to the Edge -- although 18 minutes or whatever, is really a few pieces put together (as Thick As A Brick is however many songs put together in one track)...This works well for ELP's Tarkus and Rush's Hemispheres as well.
Joined: September 06 2012
Location: Somerset
Status: Offline
Points: 58
Posted: July 11 2014 at 04:13
The problem with tales for me is that the first song is really rather good and almost justifies it's length, but the others feel too simplistic and plodding to warrant their length. It feels like they said 'lets have four really huge songs' and then tried to stretch out the music to fit. It's not a bad album, the first track is good and the last is ok, and that is an hour I suppose! I just find it not nearly as engaging as most of Yes's other 70s albums.
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
Posted: July 11 2014 at 07:52
Stereolab wrote:
OK, onto the last track of Tales, this one is the best by far... at least on first listen. I'm going to have to try the whole thing again from the beginning while on a mind-altering substance next time, I think.
You can not form a proper opinion of a work such as Tales in only listen, nor in two nor in three. You will certainly get a first impression but it's an album which necessarily requires the listener to give it time. And it is an album with which indeed certain substances can make wonders, they should have released it with a bag of mushrooms included in the inner sleeve
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
Posted: July 11 2014 at 07:52
Gerinski wrote:
Stereolab wrote:
OK, onto the last track of Tales, this one is the best by far... at least on first listen. I'm going to have to try the whole thing again from the beginning while on a mind-altering substance next time, I think.
You can not form a proper opinion of a work such as Tales in one listen, nor in two nor in three. You will certainly get a first impression but it's an album which necessarily requires the listener to give it time. And it is an album with which indeed certain substances can make wonders, they should have released it with a bag of mushrooms included in the inner sleeve
OK, onto the last track of Tales, this one is the best by far... at least on first listen. I'm going to have to try the whole thing again from the beginning while on a mind-altering substance next time, I think.
You can not form a proper opinion of a work such as Tales in one listen, nor in two nor in three. You will certainly get a first impression but it's an album which necessarily requires the listener to give it time. And it is an album with which indeed certain substances can make wonders, they should have released it with a bag of mushrooms included in the inner sleeve
Anything that alters your own mind without your prior consent has to result in your critical faculties being compromised don't ya think? I've listened to Charles Manson on amyl nitrate and he sounds entirely plausible as a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Amyl nitrate has the ability to open many things, but I don't think the mind is one of them
OK some imbibed muscle relaxants have precisely zero ability to influence the north end of a spinal column but such are not exclusively gay considerations (heterosexual anal penetration being one contingency- can't believe I typed that as I ain't ever done same)
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
Posted: July 11 2014 at 09:41
ExittheLemming wrote:
Anything that alters your own mind without your prior consent has to result in your critical faculties being compromised don't ya think?
I think I never got any such substances into my body without my prior consent but in any case I'm not sure if prior consent makes any big difference on their effects. I will never recommend that, it was a joke, but in any case critical faculties are not the only cognitive functions relevant to the experience of listening to music.
Joined: June 02 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2466
Posted: July 11 2014 at 09:57
Dayvenkirq wrote:
Michael678 wrote:
Triceratopsoil wrote:
It's an awful lot less terrible than Close To The Edge
are ya mad, man?!?!?!?!
Interestingly enough, he is not the only one. I believe Dean shared the same feeling in one of his posts about a month ago.
wow.... shameful. i do remember one review i read like probably several months ago from someone who gave it just ONE STAR, saying that the sound quality was DULL among others that hit me alot, at least the parts i remember.
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
Posted: July 11 2014 at 11:57
Michael678 wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
Michael678 wrote:
Triceratopsoil wrote:
It's an awful lot less terrible than Close To The Edge
are ya mad, man?!?!?!?!
Interestingly enough, he is not the only one. I believe Dean shared the same feeling in one of his posts about a month ago.
wow.... shameful. i do remember one review i read like probably several months ago from someone who gave it just ONE STAR, saying that the sound quality was DULL among others that hit me alot, at least the parts i remember.
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Tales From Topographic Oceans
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