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iluvmarillion View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 00:08
Originally posted by King Manuel King Manuel wrote:

There seems to be a general consensus who the so called Big Five of Prog Rock are:


Yes
ELP
Genesis
King Crimson
Pink Floyd

All of them are 70s bands from the glory days of our beloved genre.

With Prog having undergone a big revival, is it maybe time to look at the Big Five again and maybe remove one to be replaced by a group from the 80s,90s or 00s? What is your opinion? Whom would you replace with whom?

I would maybe take Pink Floyd out and put Tull in, not because Floyd aren't a great band, but because Floyd were only a Psychedelic/ Space Rock band for the brief period when Syd Barrett abdicated and Dave Gilmour established himself in the band. Other than that no argument. Rush didn't establish themselves till the late 70's. Camel, Renaissance, Gentle Giant and VDGG don't quite come up to the other five bands. Neither do Dream Theater, Marillion, Spock's Beard, Porcupine Tree and other more contemporary bands so top five stays as is.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 07:50
Crazy talk. As others have stated, for the most part, these are the "Originators" of the genre so why would you need to change that? If you feel the need to glorify the modern era artists that have "FOLLOWED" in their footsteps then knock yourself out. You've quoted three decades to pick from, that should tell you something. Even current prog bands run their course, Dream Theatre being an example. They came on strong with some good albums but have fallen into a dull and boring metal sound that has little to nothing to do with progressive music. But that's a discussion for another time.

BTW, to Horizons, ELP is NOT bad. They were without a doubt extremely talented and innovators in the field of music. You obviously just don't like them. Comments like that are useless in a conversation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 07:53
Rush (still going - still huge)
Porcupine Tree
Radiohead
Dream Theater
Muse

IMO...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 08:08
Sorry to say that, but without good sales and enough popularity the actual majors wouldn't have let the whole genre begin. So I'd replace King Crimson with Jethro Tull.  

My personal top 5 would include Camel

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 08:49
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

Tull is missing from your list dude.

Yes. According to progression magazine, is "The Big Six" of progressive music, not the big 5,  and Tull is in the list.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 08:56
From the perspective of the '70s, I would have to go with:

Yes
Tull 
ELP
Genesis
King Crimson

As has already been stated, Floyd is great and can absolutely be considered part of the list in retrospect. But during the heyday, Floyd was not widely considered a progressive band.

My list for the '90s+ is:

Spock's Beard
Anglagard
The Flower Kings
Porcupine Tree
Dream Theater

All these bands give such a distinct nod toward the '70s they could be called "retroprogressive."

I think bands like Radiohead, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, and Sigur Ros deserve a special nod, as they have paved the road into the future.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 11:40
Originally posted by King Manuel King Manuel wrote:

There seems to be a general consensus who the so called Big Five of Prog Rock are:


Yes
ELP
Genesis
King Crimson
Pink Floyd

All of them are 70s bands from the glory days of our beloved genre.

With Prog having undergone a big revival, is it maybe time to look at the Big Five again and maybe remove one to be replaced by a group from the 80s,90s or 00s? What is your opinion? Whom would you replace with whom?

King Crimson were never really a big band. Influential, yes, but no more than a large cult band. Apart from the debut and In the Wake (which most of us bought on the back of the debut and mostly absolutely hated), their albums scraped round the lower reaches of the UK charts.

The others were huge, as were Tull. I think Rush also have to be included now as from the late 70s on, they were comparable to anyone in the genre.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 14:10
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Mind_Drive Mind_Drive wrote:

i´d probably replace ELP with Tull (...)


I agree. ELP, formed as a "supergroup" in 1970, were released 7 studio albums in golden decade, and IMO three albums are essential masterpieces of the progressive rock - s/t debut, Tarkus and Trilogy . If you like, add Brain Salad Surgery and that's four.
Jethro Tull in the period from 1968 to 1979 were released 12 studio albums of which at least 8 albums are essential prog masterpieces. Nuff said.

p.s. Also, ELP never released so great live album that can be in comparision with outstanding Bursting Out

This is of course very subjective and I am an ELP fan so I would put Welcome Back My Friends up against Bursting Out. Also Pictures At An Exhibition as a unique live album could easily be added to the 4 'essential prog masterpeices' that you name.

In my mind though there is a big seven that includes Rush and Tull. 7 is a really annoying number though so we could easily add Camel , VDGG and PFM to make that special ten imo.

bugger missed out Gentle Giant .. rips up list and starts againLOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 14:13
The list will never be complete without Amon Düül ll. The bible says so.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 14:43
& Henry Cow
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 15:15
The "big five" is not a matter of tastes, it's some sort of "establishment", you are not gonna change that now anymore. It's like talking about Elvis, The Beatles and the Stones, or The Sex Pistols, when many people may have preferred other artists in their genres.
It is obvious that many great ones are as deserving or more than those five, but those five are what they are.
Another thing is trying to make a list of newer Prog bands which could be considered as the modern big ones, but when there's no element of innovation, quality alone is often not enough to bring a band on such a pedestal. Personally I am not too in depth with much modern Prog but I certainly see bands such as Marillion, IQ, DT or the Flower Kings as deserving a status as the "architects of the revival of Prog". 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 15:20
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

The list will never be complete without Amon Düül ll. The bible says so.
Amon Düül II is so effifing good it will forever influenced my way of composing metal doom songs, as have Ash Ra Temple

Edited by Icarium - June 24 2014 at 15:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 17:29
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Mind_Drive Mind_Drive wrote:

i´d probably replace ELP with Tull (...)


I agree. ELP, formed as a "supergroup" in 1970, were released 7 studio albums in golden decade, and IMO three albums are essential masterpieces of the progressive rock - s/t debut, Tarkus and Trilogy . If you like, add Brain Salad Surgery and that's four.
Jethro Tull in the period from 1968 to 1979 were released 12 studio albums of which at least 8 albums are essential prog masterpieces. Nuff said.

p.s. Also, ELP never released so great live album that can be in comparision with outstanding Bursting Out


This is of course very subjective and I am an ELP fan so I would put Welcome Back My Friends up against Bursting Out. Also Pictures At An Exhibition as a unique live album could easily be added to the 4 'essential prog masterpeices' that you name.
In my mind though there is a big seven that includes Rush and Tull. 7 is a really annoying number though so we could easily add Camel , VDGG and PFM to make that special ten imo.
bugger missed out Gentle Giant .. rips up list and starts againLOL


The "Big 7" does sound better. 7 is the number of perfection, after all.

And while Bursting Out is spectacular, the triple-album that is Welcome Back was my companion for many years, I literally played my copies for anyone who would loan me their attention span, as clumsy as that sounds.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2014 at 23:04
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Progosopher Progosopher wrote:

Everybody is going to have their own Big Five, but these are the clear leaders when it comes to the development of the genre. Tull, Rush, and VDGG should definitely get similar levels of attention for their contributions, which would make a Big Eight. I would be content with that. Maybe add Zappa and make it Nine? No one will ever fill their shoes and have the same impact. These are the bands who created Prog as we know it. Has Prog moved on? Are their great artists who came after? Yes, but it is all built on the foundations of these artists.



^this

You must have been looking over my shoulder when you wrote that......Wink


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2014 at 00:06
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Mind_Drive Mind_Drive wrote:

i´d probably replace ELP with Tull (...)


I agree. ELP, formed as a "supergroup" in 1970, were released 7 studio albums in golden decade, and IMO three albums are essential masterpieces of the progressive rock - s/t debut, Tarkus and Trilogy . If you like, add Brain Salad Surgery and that's four.
Jethro Tull in the period from 1968 to 1979 were released 12 studio albums of which at least 8 albums are essential prog masterpieces. Nuff said.

p.s. Also, ELP never released so great live album that can be in comparision with outstanding Bursting Out

This is of course very subjective and I am an ELP fan so I would put Welcome Back My Friends up against Bursting Out. Also Pictures At An Exhibition as a unique live album could easily be added to the 4 'essential prog masterpeices' that you name.

In my mind though there is a big seven that includes Rush and Tull. 7 is a really annoying number though so we could easily add Camel , VDGG and PFM to make that special ten imo.

bugger missed out Gentle Giant .. rips up list and starts againLOL


Imo, ELP's greatest are their first three album and Works Vol 2. I mentioned Brain Salad Surgery because that album is, if i am not wrong, widely concerned as an essential prog masterpiece.

However, ELP's catalogue is not so large as Jethro Tull's, and ELP don't have so much essential prog masterpieces in their catalogue that to be enough to take Jethro Tull's place in Big 5. I mean, if some band deserved their place in this Big Five group of the great bands, that supposed band have to have a larger catalogue than e.g. ELP.

Also, that supposed band ought to be way more popular than Camel, VDGG and PFM - the great bands you mentioned; Jethro Tull was / is more popular than these three bands altogether, imo.


Edited by Svetonio - June 25 2014 at 00:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2014 at 00:29
A case could be argued about Mike Oldfield too, perhaps he did not release so many masterpieces but as for individual albums nobody can argue about the historical significance of Tubullar Bells for Prog Rock and its popularization to the big masses. In the 70's you would visit anybody's home and many people might not have albums by Yes, ELP or Tull, but rare was the home without one copy of TB.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2014 at 00:54
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Mind_Drive Mind_Drive wrote:

i´d probably replace ELP with Tull (...)


I agree. ELP, formed as a "supergroup" in 1970, were released 7 studio albums in golden decade, and IMO three albums are essential masterpieces of the progressive rock - s/t debut, Tarkus and Trilogy . If you like, add Brain Salad Surgery and that's four.
Jethro Tull in the period from 1968 to 1979 were released 12 studio albums of which at least 8 albums are essential prog masterpieces. Nuff said.

p.s. Also, ELP never released so great live album that can be in comparision with outstanding Bursting Out

This is of course very subjective and I am an ELP fan so I would put Welcome Back My Friends up against Bursting Out. Also Pictures At An Exhibition as a unique live album could easily be added to the 4 'essential prog masterpeices' that you name.

In my mind though there is a big seven that includes Rush and Tull. 7 is a really annoying number though so we could easily add Camel , VDGG and PFM to make that special ten imo.

bugger missed out Gentle Giant .. rips up list and starts againLOL


Imo, ELP's greatest are their first three album and Works Vol 2. I mentioned Brain Salad Surgery because that album is, if i am not wrong, widely concerned as an essential prog masterpiece.

However, ELP's catalogue is not so large as Jethro Tull's, and ELP don't have so much essential prog masterpieces in their catalogue that to be enough to take Jethro Tull's place in Big 5. I mean, if some band deserved their place in this Big Five group of the great bands, that supposed band have to have a larger catalogue than e.g. ELP.

Also, that supposed band ought to be way more popular than Camel, VDGG and PFM - the great bands you mentioned; Jethro Tull was / is more popular than these three bands altogether, imo.

I can't really talk about Tull all that much as I only own Stand Up , Aqualung and Thick As A Brick. I am aware that Passion Play is regarded very highly but then there are another 4 essential prog masterpieces (in your estimation) that are not discussed as much on the forum and I can't say I'm aware of their status in this regard.

ELP made some poor decisions after 1974 there is no doubt but at least they didn't just repeat themselves and they do have a couple of later albums in their catalog that are highly regarded ( ELPowell and Black Moon). I don't think this matters too much though as the era of innovation in prog was 1970-1974 after which many prog bands either just repeated themselves or took a more commercial stance with rare exceptions such as King Crimson (but not Tull I suspect)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2014 at 01:12
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Mind_Drive Mind_Drive wrote:

i´d probably replace ELP with Tull (...)


I agree. ELP, formed as a "supergroup" in 1970, were released 7 studio albums in golden decade, and IMO three albums are essential masterpieces of the progressive rock - s/t debut, Tarkus and Trilogy . If you like, add Brain Salad Surgery and that's four.
Jethro Tull in the period from 1968 to 1979 were released 12 studio albums of which at least 8 albums are essential prog masterpieces. Nuff said.

p.s. Also, ELP never released so great live album that can be in comparision with outstanding Bursting Out

This is of course very subjective and I am an ELP fan so I would put Welcome Back My Friends up against Bursting Out. Also Pictures At An Exhibition as a unique live album could easily be added to the 4 'essential prog masterpeices' that you name.

In my mind though there is a big seven that includes Rush and Tull. 7 is a really annoying number though so we could easily add Camel , VDGG and PFM to make that special ten imo.

bugger missed out Gentle Giant .. rips up list and starts againLOL


Imo, ELP's greatest are their first three album and Works Vol 2. I mentioned Brain Salad Surgery because that album is, if i am not wrong, widely concerned as an essential prog masterpiece.

However, ELP's catalogue is not so large as Jethro Tull's, and ELP don't have so much essential prog masterpieces in their catalogue that to be enough to take Jethro Tull's place in Big 5. I mean, if some band deserved their place in this Big Five group of the great bands, that supposed band have to have a larger catalogue than e.g. ELP.

Also, that supposed band ought to be way more popular than Camel, VDGG and PFM - the great bands you mentioned; Jethro Tull was / is more popular than these three bands altogether, imo.

(...) and they do have a couple of later albums in their catalog that are highly regarded ( ELPowell and Black Moon). (...)



















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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2014 at 06:40
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

If I were to replace a band, it would likely be Floyd – replaced by Tull.

ELP must remain. They're too unique. Same with Crimson. Genesis I've never thought of a "symph" band. ELP is classical rock, and the Yes brand of symph is quite different. Floyd became very popular but they're pretty much a glorified psych band, IMO.

Imo, just because Pink Floyd were psychedelic / space rock band, they must be in the Big FIve. I mean, Pink Floyd in Big 5, with their vast catalogue, are covering all that huge genre with all of its sub-genres -  from early English psychedelia to the progressive psychedelia.


Edited by Svetonio - June 25 2014 at 06:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2014 at 07:16
Five words you must read before you die:

You're all full of sh*t LOL

Prog is considerably more bountiful that just 5 'biggie' bands so why not just celebrate the scores of fantastic bands that adorn our site whether they be from the early 70's or otherwise?
What the world needs now is love sweet love some clueless revisionist c*nt


Edited by ExittheLemming - June 25 2014 at 07:30
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