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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:28
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'm confused. Understandable I guess because I'm not getting the full story here.

For example: I can't see that the one quote from him: "corrupt society" equates to the topic title of "Americans have no culture", or even to culture in general. However, since on first reading "Keep your sh*t to yourself" seems to be an aggressive and confrontational response then I guess there was more leading up to the exchange than simply that, and I assume the phrase "Americans have no culture" was uttered at some point in the overheard conversation.

  - Yes, he'd made numerous negative remarks, and had done so in the past as well.   This included several comments about our 'corrupt society'.   What this guy really needs is a good pop in the nose.   It would improve matters immensely.  He's going to get his ass kicked someday.   All the better.


American's tend to be quick on the defensive and intolerant of any criticism of their country, its people and, well... everything except their government really (but then only if you're essentially agreeing with whatever they are saying about the current administration). Americans are not unique in that respect, other nationals are also very defensive over any criticism of their native lands. That you would enter into a verbal confrontation over this does not surprise me, it's not something I (or most other Englishmen) would do, but then we are a self-deprecating nation and in the main we would agree with any critic, America is not and would not.

  - I believe that about the English, and it's commendable.   The problem there is that though an immigrant might say "I hate English culture", which would be entirely tolerable, "The English have no culture (and are corrupt to boot)" is a different and far more ignorant observation.   It is something spoken by an adult man with the mind of a fifteen year-old, which is what I think we had here.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:46
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Blind adoration of a flag and an army is maybe part of this difficult-to-define thing known as American culture... of some Americans
Okay, but my reaction had little to do with jingoism--  it was a visceral disdain for his foolishly liberated attitude that he could smile and say a people have no culture.   The statement itself shows a lack of culture, not to mention class and worldliness.   It verges on ironic.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:51
Yeah, I was a bit confused about what exactly the guy said. I assumed he subscribed to "Murica" stereotypes and that his definition of "culture" consisted mostly of interest (or disinterest, hehe) in European "high" art.


Edited by Polymorphia - May 23 2014 at 20:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:55
^ That may be part of the problem: clarity.   If he'd said "I don't care for the music or food here",  that would've been fine.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 21:16
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

It's a pretty stupid statement but sounds like you need to work more on your anger issues. If something as trivial as that can get you hot and bothered maybe you should just back the f**k off.
 
Seriously who gives a flying F what someone else thinks. I've lived in the USA for 15 years, I'm a citizen, and have no plans to leave, but some yanks seriously get their panties in a bunch about mindless stuff. And yes I'm critical of my home country as well.
 
People have opinions, many of them mindless, grow a skin and live with it.

I do need to work on my anger issues.   But at least I have a spine, a pair of balls to go with it, and can live with myself.

"Who care s what someone else thinks" is such a tired old mindless attitude it no longer has any credibility.   Think up something new and get back to me.



Dear God, I just check still have a spine and my balls & I'm fine living with myself. Do you you have to prove your manhood to be comfortable in your own skin?

Since when did not caring what someone else thinks no longer have credibility? Guess I didn't get the memo. Why do I need anything new when the old stuff is still valid. Christ you just full of piss & vinegar aren't you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 21:18
^ Yes, I am that.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 23:21
I just returned from a two week trip to US and I would strongly disagree with such a statement based on my experience.  FWIW, I found the airport staff at American airports, including the busy O Hare and JFK, much more cheerful and friendly than the downright grumpy Heathrow.   Having lived my life in a third world country with a 'rich' heritage and culture, I place a lot more emphasis on those aspects of culture than certain kinds of fine cuisine or art forms which normal people may or may not like. 

With that said, reacting angrily and defensively to such a jackass also shows you in a bad light, as if you cannot tolerate an opinion you don't like.  Far better to question him about the source of his assumptions and silence him when he runs out of arguments, as he probably will.  Or if he doesn't (want to) argue, he will withdraw and keep quiet, so either way that works. 


Edited by rogerthat - May 23 2014 at 23:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 23:23
^ Quite correct--  hindsight ...

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 23:34
Anger = waste of time, energy and thought. 
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2014 at 23:37
^ No I disagree, and a good point to discuss.   Anger is as normal an emotion as any other, I don't see how it could be a waste of time, energy and thought (the gallbladder of emotions?).   But that aside, are there not times when anger is appropriate, controlled and measured ideally, but appropriate?






Edited by Atavachron - May 23 2014 at 23:38
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 00:02
Some people are just too stupid, too ignorant, too irrelevant, or too much a combination of these, to waste time, energy, and maybe even risking one's integrity, to prove them wrong.

The other day I was driving here in a major street when this moron in a pickup truck stops in the middle of everything, goes to the back of his truck, pulls out a gigantic confederate flag, stands it upright for all too see, and then gets into his car again. I felt the urge to just drive by and tell him something, maybe things I wouldn't write here because they would be politically incorrect, but then I said "what for? He is an ignorant with an attitude, he doesn't deserve my time, my energy, and on top of that, brave 'murican that he seems to think he is, he probably has one of 'em guns that are the banner of 'freedom' and goes all cowboy on me". And I drove on.

I say this because I've felt the urge to talk (or act) back to morons all the time, but morons are the way they are and they will never change.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 00:40
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

Anger = waste of time, energy and thought. 


Someone's in need of apathy management?Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 01:34
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Some people are just too stupid, too ignorant, too irrelevant, or too much a combination of these, to waste time, energy, and maybe even risking one's integrity, to prove them wrong.

morons are the way they are and they will never change.

Quite the fact, sadly enough.
Oh, for the fool who stated Americans haven't got culture, he could've been a bit more diplomatic and say 'some folks' have no culture......

Edited by Tom Ozric - May 24 2014 at 01:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 02:40
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'm confused. Understandable I guess because I'm not getting the full story here.

For example: I can't see that the one quote from him: "corrupt society" equates to the topic title of "Americans have no culture", or even to culture in general. However, since on first reading "Keep your sh*t to yourself" seems to be an aggressive and confrontational response then I guess there was more leading up to the exchange than simply that, and I assume the phrase "Americans have no culture" was uttered at some point in the overheard conversation.

  - Yes, he'd made numerous negative remarks, and had done so in the past as well.   This included several comments about our 'corrupt society'.   What this guy really needs is a good pop in the nose.   It would improve matters immensely.  He's going to get his ass kicked someday.   All the better.
This isn't really clarifying what happened and what was actually said, without the full story I still cannot determine what the phrase "Americans have no culture" means in this context. If English is his second language he could have meant Americans are uncultured rather than you don't have a culture, and to the rest of the world Americans can appear to be just a little too loud and under-informed at times.

But it seems this guy is going to wind you up no matter what he says.

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

American's tend to be quick on the defensive and intolerant of any criticism of their country, its people and, well... everything except their government really (but then only if you're essentially agreeing with whatever they are saying about the current administration). Americans are not unique in that respect, other nationals are also very defensive over any criticism of their native lands. That you would enter into a verbal confrontation over this does not surprise me, it's not something I (or most other Englishmen) would do, but then we are a self-deprecating nation and in the main we would agree with any critic, America is not and would not.

  - I believe that about the English, and it's commendable.   The problem there is that though an immigrant might say "I hate English culture", which would be entirely tolerable, "The English have no culture (and are corrupt to boot)" is a different and far more ignorant observation.   It is something spoken by an adult man with the mind of a fifteen year-old, which is what I think we had here.


I'd probably respond with - "Correct, we stole it from every country we ever owned, (and that's just how corrupt we are)" - remember the French call us Perfidious Albion and I don't recall ever hearing an Englishman refute that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 02:59
^ That's the calm, rational response, and not at all what I was interested in.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:07
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I just returned from a two week trip to US and I would strongly disagree with such a statement based on my experience.  FWIW, I found the airport staff at American airports, including the busy O Hare and JFK, much more cheerful and friendly than the downright grumpy Heathrow.    
At SF airport the friendly staff kindly pulled me from the back of a very long queue and cheerfully re-arranged and re-packed the contents of my luggage in a more tidy and ordered fashion before sending me merrily on my way. I can recommend dressing-up as a Gothic Hippy if you want to be fast-tracked through airport security. And yes, everyone at Heathrow is a grumpy sod.

...having spent too many hours in too many airports they all tend to blur into one. I do however dislike the intrusive unfriendliness of the USA's security checks - I'm surprised they don't take DNA and urine samples before letting you in.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:10
^ Give us time.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:13
This is all wrong. I don't believe this even happened for a second. If he was a real American, regardless of where he came from, he'd have said, "Americans has no culture."

We're nothing if not willfully and, often, gleefully, ignorant of the primarily accepted language of the land, first and foremost. Wink

And he'd have tweeted it.
With his left hand.
In heavy traffic.
While turning left.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:26
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ That's the calm, rational response, and not at all what I was interested in.

Then what are you interested in? What was it exactly that pushed your buttons? I am struggling to see what caused such an aggressive response from you.

To react as you did (and will continue to react), you must have interpreted what he said in a certain way. What was that? 

Did you believe he meant that Americans are uncouth and uncultured, that the less-than-flattering image of American culture portrayed in reality TV programmes is an accurate representation of the nation as a whole?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:39
^ Again, that was part of the problem, it was unclear.   But he's as responsible for saying what he means as others are for trying to interpret it.   And he speaks quite well actually, has an accent but is well versed in English.

This guy is thicker than I may be describing him and blunt force seemed the more effective tool.   I do courteous diplomacy as a rule but shock treatment seemed due.   But I think you're probably right, this guy is bugging me on some deeper level and probably best to ignore it.





Edited by Atavachron - May 24 2014 at 03:41
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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