Vinyl

I think their last 3 have pretty solid production and sound

Always thought CDs sounded better but I find listening to vinyl more fun in a way

To get the best comparison of analogue versus vinyl I recommend comparing classical releases.

Unlike pop music this stuff is recorded with the idea of a full enriching musical experience rather than be loud, sell more idea. Plus they have a lot of instruments to record so the recording and mastering is done carefully. There is a greater sonic range with a full orchestra so the bass distortion ("warmth") is clear and you hear the instrument rather than a third party version of the sound.

Incidentally this is also the reason why guitar sounds and solos changed over recent years in metal. Loud but low pitched distorted sounds impact pleasurably on a brain especially one that has been, er, chemically informed. Screaming leads have a different effect (in case anyoine ever wondered the real reason behind Metallica's 90s "ideas")

Recently bought some old recordings (Barenboim conducting LvB's 7 and 8th symphonies in DVD-A and they sound absolutely great. The sound is clear, the mix top notch, the stereo picture is just right. I compare an SACD of L v B's Eroica and it tops the 16 bit CD but admittedly, only if you are being careful with the listening. For the most part a good classical release is fine on the improved format and the newer recordings I find are very good indeed. They sound great full blast as well.

That said there are still highly dodgy classical releases (recorded from Lps, dust covered stylii, bad tape transfers) so watch out for apparent bargains they may actually be garbage.

The old classical vinyl sounds good (I've Tchiavovky's 5th which is a thoroughly enjoyable LP but the SACD and DVDs are heaven.

So the comparison of recordings is complex. It seems most people find comparing vinyl to listening to stuff on a PC to be better. What a surprise. Compare the CD to the vinyl then we might be comparing apples to apples. Some 192kbps mp3 is never going to sound good. Even the best are only a fifth of the wav file which still does not sound good being pushed through non hi fi media such as a computer.

Computers have their value but as hi fi media, no. Players, yes. Ways of being able to make a decision like valuing  records over new media, not good. Use a stereo, doesn't have to be hi-end, in fact anything reasonable from the past 30 years (post hideous '70s quality) should be okay. Mine's only medium level a 5.1 amp and universal (DVD / SACD 2.0) player, a cheap 5.1 DVD player and 2012 speakers that are fine for my humble quarters but not for the bigger rooms.

Oh when loking for the audio quality records are the LPs digitally remastered versus non-remastered? Don't forget the tape generation that LPs are based upon, unlike common source digital files new releases and re-masters have. For Lps do look for tags such as half speed mastered. (Steely Dan Aja, Gaucho spring to mind). Don't take things at a surface level.

Cassettes are popular now? Oh dear. Bring back the 5.1 wax cylinder why don't we? This really says more about the dodgy hardware choices people use to listen to music on as they play on line video games.

It is very easy to explain, it is just very difficult for many fans of analogue (not just LP but tape too) to accept the explanation.

Dean wrote: It is very easy to explain, it is just very difficult for many fans of analogue (not just LP but tape too) to accept the explanation. I have explained it in the past but received so much grief and abuse from audiophilists and vinyl junkies that I really cannot be bothered any more. If you like what you hear then that's fine by me.

Yes most of the technical answers are in this thread.

One thing. A lot of vinyl junkies have a lot of time and money invested in audiophilia - 10s of 1000s of LPs collected over 50 years or so.... And to find out that they are all sonically redundant gets the defensive mode up. Wilful denial, there's psychological factors as well...

I am so glad I junked my LPs. I've a few but a non remastered CD and the vinyl sound the same (using BOC's OYFOYYK as a side by side comparison.

Oh and Born Again had a horrible post production mastering and would have sounded awful no matter what. Nothing to do with format. IG threw his in the rubbish. Or a swimming pool. Along with the car thta was still there.

;)

Kentucky_Hawkwindage wrote: I guess i'm better off being a vinyl junkie than a heroin junkie-or am i?

I find it hard to believe that anyone is actually offended by anything they read on an internet forum, least of all your personal preferences.

Edited by Dean - April 27 2014 at 17:50

Catcher10 wrote: uduwudu wrote: Dean wrote: It is very easy to explain, it is just very difficult for many fans of analogue (not just LP but tape too) to accept the explanation. I have explained it in the past but received so much grief and abuse from audiophilists and vinyl junkies that I really cannot be bothered any more. If you like what you hear then that's fine by me. Yes most of the technical answers are in this thread. One thing. A lot of vinyl junkies have a lot of time and money invested in audiophilia - 10s of 1000s of LPs collected over 50 years or so.... And to find out that they are all sonically redundant gets the defensive mode up. Wilful denial, there's psychological factors as well...I am so glad I junked my LPs. I've a few but a non remastered CD and the vinyl sound the same (using BOC's OYFOYYK as a side by side comparison.Oh and Born Again had a horrible post production mastering and would have sounded awful no matter what. Nothing to do with format. IG threw his in the rubbish. Or a swimming pool. Along with the car thta was still there.;) Wow...did not realize I had psychological issues I suppose same can be said of digital junkies Enjoy the music!

No offence meant. We are into prog rock and the question of psych problems would have them reinventing the whole subject. (I've done psych paper and have a fair idea of those implications.) The type of psychological attibute for say, vinyl prefence is a thing called "group think". IMHO naturally.

What I wanted to ensure was a consistency of understanding values. Why someone prefers vinyl over a CD or DVD or Blu Ray is up them; that is the media. But the underlying mastering, tapes, digital transfers old LP varying pressing quality) is wildly inconsistent in pop and rock. Evidence - the discussion debate and diatribes alone means something is wrong somewhere over the rainbow. There's more, such as the varying out puts over the years...

The psych bit - if someone has beer crate loads of LPs lovingly worn out over the decades and now finds they are not "as good" as CDs; well he may feel a tad peeved at the implications. I know I would.

So there is a lot involved in this business. Loudness wars - where sounds are boosted - because the most popular listening medium is the mp3 - and  - how about this for a thought. Your digitally remastered analogue LP was mastered for mp3 listening... bad enough when that happens on 16 bit CDs...

An example of inconsistency.. Tull's SFTW. The LP was fine. The initial CD transfer sounded, for want of a better term - sticky. It was a horrible listen. Not the fault of the CD (that's blaming the messenger) but the tape transfer. So the public feel conned. I know I did. But I got the Japanese rema$ter and that sounds just fine. Multiply that by 10,000s of recordings and the industry has a big problem. Public perception and trust abuse.

A record should sound as good as it's production allows (usually budget and equipment dependent). Hello Genesis.

The big test... how would anyone as an objective and experienced critical listener recommend something to someone if they trustingly asked you whether vinyl, CD, DVD, Blu Ray, mp3... (cassette???... omfg....)... is the best format for their outlay?

I'm sure we can make our own decisions with all our varying data inputs and prejudices built up over many years ('Won't Back Down' - Tom Petty now playing in background) - but how does that communicate to someone taking your recommendation. (I don't mean catcher10 but everyone. We are very inclusive. ;)

ciao for now...

uduwudu wrote: No offence meant. We are into prog rock and the question of psych problems would have them reinventing the whole subject. (I've done psych paper and have a fair idea of those implications.) The type of psychological attibute for say, vinyl prefence is a thing called "group think". IMHO naturally.