A wonderful bit of cherry picking, all that is sadly true but you could find quite a lot showing the opposite as well.
It wasn't the point anyway. I admit it's easier to say "Russia" but I did not mean the entire people/country (I try not to blanket things like that) guess I should've said "Because Putin is totally a saint". I think we all know he is probably the instigator in all this. Even if not directly...
Seems like a slow process to me. 2004 Ukraine tried to fight against the bear, and managed to hold out for a bit. 2010 came Yanukovich, which some at the time said was just the start of the process of the country being sold off to Russia. Seems accurate to me so far. Even if Putin is just pulling an IR move to strenghten himself against the protests to be more Western, he still caused it all in the long run. I can't believe that Putin hasn't planted people in some areas over time. Is any of this too ridiculous?
Not trying to be funny or edgy here, I really do think given all this, the issues with Georgia years ago, and the various Russian puppet states like Belarus, that the former KGBer really is trying to create some new-old Russian empire.
I really wouldn't be opposed to Crimea and even some Eastern states being given to Russia. One could argue, esp Crimea, really should be anyway. Then Ukraine can maybe be free and pursue more Nationalist/Western future. Would that just temporarily placate Putin though? Of course the US and EU don't want Russia to have any more land.
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 13:19
JJLehto wrote:
A wonderful bit of cherry picking, all that is sadly true but you could find a lot showing the opposite as well (...)
(...) that the former KGBer really is trying to create some new-old Russian Empire.
Itcan not be comparedbecausethe other side at the present day is quite a socialism in comparision withPutin's Russia . Also, images of beggars & homlesson the streets of big cities on the West are pretty "normal"(e.g. the famousParisianbums were /area tourists attraction), while in Russia that poverty is a result of "transition" where "former" KGBers and gangsters took all in past 25 yrs only; there wasn't so called democracy (as they "have" now) , but they were living in a real socialism and there weren't these kids and old womans to beg in downtown Moscow - actually the most expensive quarter in the World now.
My pointwas thefactthatPutinand his Mafia are not willing & able tomakesome "Eurasia" and particularly notthe "new empire"becausethey are not willing & able eventoraise theirPacificEastnorto feed the people. On Kremlin' side, all of this with Ukraineis just a mimicry in order tofalse patriotism - in order tokeepin power; Slobodan Milosevic did do the same and caused the Balkan wars in 90s on that way.
Putin and his gangsters are Russians and they know that Russian peoplenotstaging demonstrations so oftenas Americansorthe Greeks do, buttheir protests can easily turn into a rebellionandrevolution. So that "battle to save Russians in Ukraine" is actually a battle for their rule, and consenquently, thatunlimitedrobbery to be continued.
Joined: April 21 2005
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 14:06
JJLehto wrote:
A wonderful bit of cherry picking, all that is sadly true but you could find quite a lot showing the opposite as well.
It wasn't the point anyway. I admit it's easier to say "Russia" but I did not mean the entire people/country (I try not to blanket things like that) guess I should've said "Because Putin is totally a saint". I think we all know he is probably the instigator in all this. Even if not directly...
Seems like a slow process to me. 2004 Ukraine tried to fight against the bear, and managed to hold out for a bit. 2010 came Yanukovich, which some at the time said was just the start of the process of the country being sold off to Russia. Seems accurate to me so far. Even if Putin is just pulling an IR move to strenghten himself against the protests to be more Western, he still caused it all in the long run. I can't believe that Putin hasn't planted people in some areas over time. Is any of this too ridiculous?
Not trying to be funny or edgy here, I really do think given all this, the issues with Georgia years ago, and the various Russian puppet states like Belarus, that the former KGBer really is trying to create some new-old Russian empire.
I really wouldn't be opposed to Crimea and even some Eastern states being given to Russia. One could argue, esp Crimea, really should be anyway. Then Ukraine can maybe be free and pursue more Nationalist/Western future. Would that just temporarily placate Putin though? Of course the US and EU don't want Russia to have any more land.
Ugh, yeah Im sick again
I have some Russian friends and they say it's pretty sh*tty after the Soviet Union collapsed. People lost everything and then ( US sponsored ogliarchs and the current Putin, KGB gangsters) took everything. A lot of people that were at the top of the party hierarchy who weren't corrupt or gangsters got really screwed. Shock therapy completely destroyed all social protections and Russia became the testing ground of the new IMF neoliberal state. Now what we see that is the neoliberal state created by the Americans has now MERGED with the Russian KGB, who took advantage of the situation and took everything. Putin never planted those former KGB over in those post-communist states... They have been there even before Putin took power... They never lost their allegiance to their intelligence agencies and their cause.... What's worrying is the thing that Svetonio mentioned with the development of two mature fascist empires in the heart of Eurasia -> The "European" Union and the new Russian Empire -> which will include most of the former Soviet Union..
About Belarus -> It's not a Russian puppet, it's just a PART of the Russian empire. The people there mostly speak Russian and they view themselves as Russians. A guy at work here who is from Belarus views himself as Russian. The languages, cultures and customs in Belarus, Russia, Eastern and Southern Ukraine are very similar. Western Ukrainians, from what I met, are Polonized and a lot of them are Catholics. From hundreds of years of Polish and Austrian colonization, they are more like Poles than Russians. Russian presence in Central Asia remains different, because those are conquered lands.
The problem with you talking about "Russian puppet states" is that the pro-Western opposition are not free from puppetry either. The current Ukrainian and Georgian government are not these "liberal democrats" you're talking about, they are of the same mould as the Russian puppets, but they favor the US side, because they receive most of their funding from the US and the EU (mostly from us taxpayers). They're very much as corrupt as the other side and employ similar authoritarian actions in dealing with whomever opposes them. Just look at what the pro-Western Georgian and Ukrainian authorities did when they took power. The Georgian government cracked down on pro-Russian protestors and employed torture against them. Mind you in 2008, Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers in the region with NATO weaponry FIRST and the CIA and other Western intelligence agencies IMF has been embedded deeply into the pro-Western factions in both Ukraine and Georgia. What other state would the CIA director John Brennan visit unannounced other than to directly their puppets? These countries, if they join the EU and NATO as vassals, they won't do as well economically as the United States or the United Kingdom. I mean look at most of Eastern Europe, even after 25 years of American cultural, political and economic dominance, the economies of most of those nations continue to be basketcases...They provide cheap labor to Western markets, cheap resources to be transported without barrier to the German industrial base and their best talent continues moving to the West.. Not really a good deal for them...., but since Westerners are so indoctrinated by the most ridiculous knee-jerk Russiophobia, the population of the West believes that they might join with the West if they want prosperity and happiness.
Joined: April 21 2005
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 14:08
Svetonio wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
A wonderful bit of cherry picking, all that is sadly true but you could find a lot showing the opposite as well (...)
(...) that the former KGBer really is trying to create some new-old Russian Empire.
Itcan not be comparedbecausethe other side at the present day is quite a socialism in comparision withPutin's Russia . Also, images of beggars & homlesson the streets of big cities on the West are pretty "normal"(e.g. the famousParisianbums were /area tourists attraction), while in Russia that poverty is a result of "transition" where "former" KGBers and gangsters took all in past 25 yrs only; there wasn't so called democracy (as they "have" now) , but there weren't these kids and old womans to beg in downtown Moscow - actually the most expensive quarter in the World.
My pointwas thefactthatPutinand his Mafia are not willing & able tomakesome "Eurasia" and particularly notthe new/oldempirebecausethey are not willing & able eventoraise theirPacificEastnorto feed the people. On Kremlin' side, all of this with Ukraineis just a mimicry - in order tofalse patriotism in order tokeepin power; Putin and his gangsters are Russians and they know that Russian peoplenotstaging demonstrations so oftenas Americansorthe Greeks do, buttheir protests can easily turn into a rebellionandrevolution.
America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 14:29
NotAProghead wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
THIS is Putin's Russia:
(...)
And please don't forget threre are bears everywhere and everybody drinks vodka and plays balalajka.
Of course. However, here in Serbia, Russian agencies performed very strong propaganda - due to interests of Gazprom - that there's not poverty at all in your country because Putin is a good natured saint. So I can't wait that Putin is gonna be disposed.
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 17:04
King of Loss wrote:
America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
Do you agreethatLondon and Washington have to launch areverse process in Russia, quite oppositethanthey did at the time of "shock therapy"? I mean, if youstronglysupportZyuganov, because hewouldcertainlybreak upthat alliance withMerkel's Germany ("E.U."). This,in my humble opinion, can be onlygood for London and Washigton; breakingBerlin-Moscowalliancenow with supporting Zyuganov,It will costmuch cheapernowthan later, when so many bad things are gonna be evolved; e.g. if Scotlanddeclares independencein September 2014, thenScotlandwillsoonbein a happyalliance withBerlin and Moscow - for sure.
Joined: April 21 2005
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Posted: April 18 2014 at 19:27
Svetonio wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
Do you agreethatLondon and Washington have to launch areverse process in Russia, quite oppositethanthey did at the time of "shock therapy"? I mean, if youstronglysupportZyuganov, because hewouldcertainlybreak upthat alliance withMerkel's Germany ("E.U."). This,in my humble opinion, can be onlygood for London and Washigton; breakingBerlin-Moscowalliancenow with supporting Zyuganov,It will costmuch cheapernowthan later, when so many bad things are gonna be evolved; e.g. if Scotlanddeclares independencein September 2014, thenScotlandwillsoonbein a happyalliance withBerlin and Moscow - for sure.
No, Washington likes neoliberal government quite a lot. It benefits the bankers who rules America by proxy in New York and in London. A couple of my relatives work in the City and Wall Street, so they would know about that. Putin is a huge threat to their monetary domination of the world, but also to the national interests of the US and the UK. He's a serious threat to their domination of the world's affairs since the end of World War 2.
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Posted: April 19 2014 at 01:49
King of Loss wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
Do you agreethatLondon and Washington have to launch areverse process in Russia, quite oppositethanthey did at the time of "shock therapy"? I mean, if youstronglysupportZyuganov, because hewouldcertainlybreak upthat alliance withMerkel's Germany ("E.U."). This,in my humble opinion, can be onlygood for London and Washigton; breakingBerlin-Moscowalliancenow with supporting Zyuganov,It will costmuch cheapernowthan later, when so many bad things are gonna be evolved; e.g. if Scotlanddeclares independencein September 2014, thenScotlandwillsoonbein a happyalliance withBerlin and Moscow - for sure.
No, Washington likes neoliberal government quite a lot. It benefits the bankers who rules America by proxy in New York and in London. A couple of my relatives work in the City and Wall Street, so they would know about that. Putin is a huge threat to their monetary domination of the world, but also to the national interests of the US and the UK. He's a serious threat to their domination of the world's affairs since the end of World War 2.
Yes, I understand ...Bankersfrom WallStreetwillbehardcorefansof the "former"KGBcolonel Putinuntil hedemandsthatAmericapayshis crudeoilin euros,rather thandollars.In this case,the U.S.economy willfalling,whileat the sametime, German ("E.U.") economy will growing rapidly. And Putin can to do this, and he will do it. But, the bankers on Wall Street do not want to see beyondtheir ownnoses,they do not wantto seethatnon-officialbutfirmalliance between"E.U."and Kremlin as arealthreat to them, the U.S. economyand,finally,topeopleinU.S.The WallStreetis afraidthatZyuganov is willing to nationalize anumberofU.S. corporationsin Russia. Of course, Zyuganov can do it, regarding his ideology and his campaign promises. But, if Zyuganov willcontinuetosimply recognizespetrodollar, then Zyuganov is much less threat than Putin and his new allies in "E.U."; because Zyuganov actually won't to have an ally in Merkel's Germany ("E.U.") as Putin alredy has as well.
As I said, Putin can ( I think he will ) tell youto paythatcrudeoilin euros.Merkelwillbe silentandsnigger.Is not itcheaperwithout thecurrencymarkets?For tradeis a necessary a lower costeuro, in along-termperspective- that is expensive€. Thentheyreceive abonusin "E.U", theirrateswillgo up,energy priceswill fall, if /when Putinwilltell youto payoffthe crude oil, metals and other raw materials - in euros. Butfor American consumersthatwillbe a disaster.Gasolinewill risefroma3.50 to 4dollarsat4.50 to 5dollarsa gallon(3.78liters). Due to fact that Wall Street is still to push Putin and his new friend ( "E.U".), one can say that the bankers from Wall Street don't have a capacity forleadershiptorecognizethat the alliance of "E.U." and Russiaholds all the cardsin their hands.
So, if theyintroducesuch measures,whether it will bepossible toreturnback?Will itbe the beginning ofthe end ofpetrodollars?Iranannouncesstrongereconomic tieswith "E.U." and isn't thatsays something? Last but not least, what if e.g.SaudiArabia also decidedto go in alliance withRussia and "E.U.",and to receiveeuros, Juan, rupees,whatever,butnodollar?
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
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Posted: April 19 2014 at 03:39
I remember a schoolmate of my elder daughter. He was Ukrainian of Russian language and I was a bit surprised when he said, "I'm not Russian, I'm Ukrainian". In any case, regardless the jokes of big bosses, violent nationalists are nothing else than football hooligans. They are easily manouvred by that kind of "leaders". It's the same everywhere.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16890
Posted: April 19 2014 at 10:11
Svetonio wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
America would start resembling Putin's Russia if we got rid of our social safety net. I mean, America is a lot wealthier than Russia, but if you looked at the wealth gap in a city, for example New York, it's quite ridiculous! Might be worse than Russia....
Do you agreethatLondon and Washington have to launch areverse process in Russia, quite oppositethanthey did at the time of "shock therapy"? I mean, if youstronglysupportZyuganov, because hewouldcertainlybreak upthat alliance withMerkel's Germany ("E.U."). This,in my humble opinion, can be onlygood for London and Washigton; breakingBerlin-Moscowalliancenow with supporting Zyuganov,It will costmuch cheapernowthan later, when so many bad things are gonna be evolved; e.g. if Scotlanddeclares independencein September 2014, thenScotlandwillsoonbein a happyalliance withBerlin and Moscow - for sure.
No, Washington likes neoliberal government quite a lot. It benefits the bankers who rules America by proxy in New York and in London. A couple of my relatives work in the City and Wall Street, so they would know about that. Putin is a huge threat to their monetary domination of the world, but also to the national interests of the US and the UK. He's a serious threat to their domination of the world's affairs since the end of World War 2.
Yes, I understand ...Bankersfrom WallStreetwillbehardcorefansof the "former"KGBcolonel Putinuntil hedemandsthatAmericapayshis crudeoilin euros,rather thandollars.In this case,the U.S.economy willfalling,whileat the sametime, German ("E.U.") economy will growing rapidly. And Putin can to do this, and he will do it. But, the bankers on Wall Street do not want to see beyondtheir ownnoses,they do not wantto seethatnon-officialbutfirmalliance between"E.U."and Kremlin as arealthreat to them, the U.S. economyand,finally,topeopleinU.S.The WallStreetis afraidthatZyuganov is willing to nationalize anumberofU.S. corporationsin Russia. Of course, Zyuganov can do it, regarding his ideology and his campaign promises. But, if Zyuganov willcontinuetosimply recognizespetrodollar, then Zyuganov is much less threat than Putin and his new allies in "E.U."; because Zyuganov actually won't to have an ally in Merkel's Germany ("E.U.") as Putin alredy has as well.
As I said, Putin can ( I think he will ) tell youto paythatcrudeoilin euros.Merkelwillbe silentandsnigger.Is not itcheaperwithout thecurrencymarkets?For tradeis a necessary a lower costeuro, in along-termperspective- that is expensive€. Thentheyreceive abonusin "E.U", theirrateswillgo up,energy priceswill fall, if /when Putinwilltell youto payoffthe crude oil, metals and other raw materials - in euros. Butfor American consumersthatwillbe a disaster.Gasolinewill risefroma3.50 to 4dollarsat4.50 to 5dollarsa gallon(3.78liters). Due to fact that Wall Street is still to push Putin and his new friend ( "E.U".), one can say that the bankers from Wall Street don't have a capacity forleadershiptorecognizethat the alliance of "E.U." and Russiaholds all the cardsin their hands.
So, if theyintroducesuch measures,whether it will bepossible toreturnback?Will itbe the beginning ofthe end ofpetrodollars?Iranannouncesstrongereconomic tieswith "E.U." and isn't thatsays something? Last but not least, what if e.g.SaudiArabia also decidedto go in alliance withRussia and "E.U.",and to receiveeuros, Juan, rupees,whatever,butnodollar?
Most people don't realize this, but the EU was founded by a bunch of secret Nazis and now they're dominating all of the nations of the European Union. 75% of all laws that European Union members follow are made in Brussels, but the reality is most of these laws are vetted by the German industrialists and their banker friends in Frankfurt.
I don't see the petrodollar lasting for too long. The US can no longer be the dominant power in the world with all of these great powers emerging.
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Posted: April 22 2014 at 03:09
Vladimir Zhyironovski(68), leader of the "Liberal Democratic Partyof Russia"and head ofthe parliamentary groupof the partyin the Duma, incitedanews conferencetwo of hisassociatesto"severe rape," the pregnantjournalist.
Due to theattacksof Zhyronovsky, the russian nationalistandwithout a doubtthe most bizarrecaricaturesof Russianpost-Sovietpolitics, pregnantStellaDubovickayafinishedin the hospital.
Dubovicakaya, televisionjournalist of "Russia Todey", sparkedoutrageZhirinovsky with the question regardingsanctions against Ukraine. Zhyronovski immediatelystartedyellinganddirectedtwo of hisyoungassistantto rape her.
"When I say, run toitand rape " Zhirinovsky ordered them.
Joined: May 25 2011
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Posted: April 22 2014 at 04:10
^ Holy s$%t. Calling a pregnant journalist a "goddamn lesbian" - now that's just stupid and insane on a level that is so astonishing. How do you top this?
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
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Posted: April 22 2014 at 06:41
ole-the-first wrote:
Zhyrinovskiy is just an old clown. Nobody expects anything conscious from him.
All dirty autocratanddictatorshave their"clowns".For example,SlobodanMilosevic also hadhis"clown", serbianfascistVojislavSeselj(the short videobelow: near yugoslavian / serbian parliament building, Belgrade's taxi driverwasthreatenedby Vojislav Seseljwith a gun); the "clown"hascome a long waysinceMilosevic'sministertothe accusedforgenocide.WhyisthereSeseljinSerbia?For the samereasonsasin ZhyrinovskyinRussia.BecauseZirinovskiserves tocleanthe field; thatleadsto an absurdextreme,sothatit turns out thatPutin's extremism to some "Third Way" - like politician image.
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16890
Posted: April 22 2014 at 10:24
Svetonio wrote:
Vladimir Zhyironovski(68), leader of the "Liberal Democratic Partyof Russia"and head ofthe parliamentary groupof the partyin the Duma, incitedanews conferencetwo of hisassociatesto"severe rape," the pregnantjournalist.
Due to theattacksof Zhyronovsky, the russian nationalistandwithout a doubtthe most bizarrecaricaturesof Russianpost-Sovietpolitics, pregnantStellaDubovickayafinishedin the hospital.
Dubovicakaya, televisionjournalist of "Russia Todey", sparkedoutrageZhirinovsky with the question regardingsanctions against Ukraine. Zhyronovski immediatelystartedyellinganddirectedtwo of hisyoungassistantto rape her.
"When I say, run toitand rape " Zhirinovsky ordered them.
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
Posted: April 22 2014 at 12:08
^ Yes ... very close.
Svetonio wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
(...)How do you top this?(...)
I read in a newspapers.
No, what I meant was "How can you beat that? Can you come up with something dumber and crazier than what Zhirinovskiy did?" That's what that phrase means.
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