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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 11:19 |
Dellinger wrote:
Though I might think that Mike Oldifield is in a very similar position to Pink Floyd too. He's not so overly complex nor virtuoso, but the melodies and atmospheres are his strong point... or at least were in the 70's. |
I am not at all familiar with Oldfield - somehow just slipped my attention - so cannot comment. I am not a huge fan of Tubular Bells but it does emphasis atmosphere rather than virtuosity from what I remember.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 11:27 |
M27Barney wrote:
And although you may think that the DSOTM lyric sheet is all that people need to understand human beings and their "condition" - I reckon a bit more reading is required!
and my argument stands.....the generalisations found in Water's lyrics are open to interpretation (as are all lyrics) so they are no more sublime than the following I have just made up now!
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Well, they are not quite so open that you can choose to intentionally look through a pedantic microscope and twist a worldly-wise sort of observation wildly out of context by trying to scientifically evaluate it. As I said earlier, the entire concept of Time, and not just the part of time flying out of reach as one gets older, would fall flat if you strictly applied the rules of physics to it. The sun does not actually set on you nor does it rise again. But people still refer to sunrise and sunset in everyday conversations maybe because watching its movements through the day, the rise and fall, has a rhythm of its own. As Iain has also observed, Waters has simply spoken in language that everyone can understand. It's nobody's case that that is all that is required to understand the human condition. Yet somebody's got to write a bloody album that doesn't have to revolve around wittier-than-thou wordplay and extremely involved concepts, otherwise the day may well come when only the artist and his sympathetic neighbours sit around the stereo to listen to the album with nobody else interested. What you are trying to do is to hold the lyrical simplicity of DSOTM itself against it, when it is an intentional choice and one that i believe has an important place in the world of arts. Maybe that explains why the world believed them all too easily when the punks accused prog of being pretentious.
Edited by rogerthat - April 17 2014 at 11:30
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
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Points: 3136
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 12:45 |
Punks were just a tool to make more money for the labels and backers, the prog musicians were getting to be costly, because they wanted to do THEIR thing, rather than sell moron music to the masses....
The great rock an roll swindle INDEED!
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 12:55 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
I think you're missing the point M27Barney as what (I think) they're trying to tell you is that the lyrics for DSOTM are brilliant because people who would not ordinarily listen to Prog or any other sort of esoteric art music, respond to the thematic promptings of this album on a subliminal level that vouchsafes the popularity of what has become an artifact of shared aesthetic experience. Yeah OK dumb f*cks can dig the emotion and concept on DSOTM, deal with it and embrace art that can be embraced by everyone. The corollary is an indefensible snobbery ain't it?
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I think that they are trying to justify THEIR OPINION that DSOTM is the best Floyd (if not this sites) output to date.
I disagree, and no amount of telling me how it appeals on so many levels blah blah blah, will not make me change my mind!
It is a simplistic effort, and a very POPULAR release! no question, but I think that most people equate "popularity" with "quality"....
as I said, I remain unconvinced of the work in comparison with it's contemporaries - such as Tales from Topographic Oceans, Selling England by the Pound and Brain Salad Surgery! (all of which are about three billion times better! (IMO)).
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Barbu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: infinity
Status: Offline
Points: 30850
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 20:49 |
True. Tales from Topographic Oceans, Selling England by the Pound and Brain Salad Surgery are insignificant compare to The Dark Side of the Moon.
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Mirror Image
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2111
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 21:04 |
M27Barney wrote:
I think that they are trying to justify THEIR OPINION that DSOTM is the best Floyd (if not this sites) output to date.
I disagree, and no amount of telling me how it appeals on so many levels blah blah blah, will not make me change my mind!
It is a simplistic effort, and a very POPULAR release! no question, but I think that most people equate "popularity" with "quality"....
as I said, I remain unconvinced of the work in comparison with it's contemporaries - such as Tales from Topographic Oceans, Selling England by the Pound and Brain Salad Surgery! (all of which are about three billion times better! (IMO)). |
Look man, nobody here is out to get you and nobody really cares what you think about Dark Side of the Moon. Your opinion is as insignificant as mine. The point I want to make is it doesn't matter if you like the album or not, it's place in prog history has been established. Contest it all you want, disagree all you want, argue all you want. The album is a masterpiece lyrically and musically. It's kind of like me trying to argue that Beethoven or Mozart weren't geniuses just because I happen to like other composers' music better. We all have our own preferences but this doesn't mean we should dump all over something just because we don't think it's up to snuff with our own favorites.
Accept or don't. I don't really care. I said what I had to say.
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Mirror Image
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2111
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 21:07 |
Damn, all of this talk about Dark Side makes me want to listen to it yet again.
Edited by Mirror Image - April 17 2014 at 21:09
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 21:19 |
M27Barney wrote:
Punks were just a tool to make more money for the labels and backers, the prog musicians were getting to be costly, because they wanted to do THEIR thing, rather than sell moron music to the masses....
The great rock an roll swindle INDEED! |
Smacks of immaturity, that comment. You might be a 100 years old for all I know
Anyway punk was a musical rebellion that morphed very quickly and most of it was not moron music for the masses. Stop being so self righteous.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
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Points: 12732
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 21:24 |
rogerthat wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Though I might think that Mike Oldifield is in a very similar position to Pink Floyd too. He's not so overly complex nor virtuoso, but the melodies and atmospheres are his strong point... or at least were in the 70's. |
I am not at all familiar with Oldfield - somehow just slipped my attention - so cannot comment. I am not a huge fan of Tubular Bells but it does emphasis atmosphere rather than virtuosity from what I remember. |
Well, if you didn't like Tubular Bells, you might not like the other 70's output from Oldfield (and even less probable his later popier albums). However, it might just as well do to check something else too. Or perhaps give Tubular Bells another chance. One piece I really love is "Ommadawn", specially the first side (or part 1, however), perhaps you might just as well check that one out.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 21:42 |
^ Ommadawn.......bang on
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Online
Points: 13056
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 22:52 |
M27Barney wrote:
So, you espouse that the lyrical content of DSOTM contains such sophistry, I am incapable of understanding them! - Are you on drugs?? |
Actually, if you go back and read your erroneous diatribes, I think it is quite plain who in this dialogue is overprescribed. But please, keep proving my point, as in your later post:
M27Barney wrote:
Punks were just a tool to make more money for the labels and backers, the prog musicians were getting to be costly, because they wanted to do THEIR thing, rather than sell moron music to the masses.... The great rock an roll swindle INDEED! |
You could not be more out of context, historically-speaking. If you had said "new wave" in place of "punk", you'd at least have a leg to stand on as far as conspiracy theories. I don't think record execs were hatching plots with the Ramones outside of CBGB in 1974.
M27Barney wrote:
As interesting as Floyds lyrical content may be to some people - I don't think you'll find that anything that requires too much intelligence to interpret - you can read any amount of bath-tub philosophy into any lyrical syntax! I for one find Anderson's word games far more enjoyable than Waters output! And suggesting that the middle class English white man has more insight into the human condition than anybody of similar education and life experience is LUDICROUS! |
It is at this juncture that I have to wonder whether you are being intentionally contrary, or whether you are simply thick. It is obvious your reading comprehension is wanting. For instance, I am not English, I am an American. A simple glance to the left side of the screen beneath my avatar will give you my location. As far as your interpretive skills, they too are a bit off. Floyd's lyrics on DSotM are fairly straightforward, even when using metaphors or allusions. Their intentions are quite clear on most of the material, and they aren't being at all obscure or misleading. The lyrics are simple but indeed insightful, sometimes even profound in their simplicity, and they were impactful to a vast audience as the Vietnam War was winding down. There are a number of posters who have already made the attempt to clue you in.
M27Barney wrote:
I think that you are a Monty Python character , I can see you prancing round your house like John Cleese in the "Ministry of Silly Walks" sketch!
And although you may think that the DSOTM lyric sheet is all that people need to understand human beings and their "condition" - I reckon a bit more reading is required!
and my argument stands.....the generalisations found in Water's lyrics are open to interpretation (as are all lyrics) so they are no more sublime than the following I have just made up now! |
My, how many fallacies can you cram into a sloppy paragraph? I don't believe anyone has said the lyrics are "all that people need to understand human beings and their condition", but keep on inventing nonsense, because at least you are amusing in your failed attempts at debate. Have you actually listened to DSotM? We know you haven't the slightest idea what the song "Time" is about, but what other songs on the album do you feel are open to your skewed interpretation? "Money"? What do you think that one is about? "Brain Damage"? Please expound. I do so love folks burying themselves with their own shovel.
M27Barney wrote:
"Third Law of Thermodynamics so Harsh.
'Bloody hell, it's freezing'....but came there no reponse...." |
The only absolute zero that appears in this conversation is your befuddled argument. That is at a constant minimum.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:08 |
Rihanna wrote:
I see all love Animals, I think its only a good album, not a masterpiece as Dark Side Of The Moon, WYWH and The Wall.The songs are from awesome to only okay, Sheep is a masterpiece the rest are good to decent. Wow i dont see the greatness all gives it, its not my favorite from Pink Floyd. I like the album but it is just maybe a strong 7/10.
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Awwww Rihanna, I must convince you otherwise, Animals is a brilliant album. Ok now listen to the tracks individually :) start by Pink Floyd - Pigs (Three Different Ones) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Okd3Oyii7E
that tracks is so sexy yet oh so good really :) hugs xxxxx
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:12 |
Kati wrote:
Rihanna wrote:
I see all love Animals, I think its only a good album, not a masterpiece as Dark Side Of The Moon, WYWH and The Wall.The songs are from awesome to only okay, Sheep is a masterpiece the rest are good to decent. Wow i dont see the greatness all gives it, its not my favorite from Pink Floyd. I like the album but it is just maybe a strong 7/10.
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Awwww Rihanna, I must convince you otherwise, Animals is a brilliant album. Ok now listen to the tracks individually :) start by Pink Floyd - Pigs (Three Different Ones) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Okd3Oyii7E
that tracks is so sexy yet oh so good really :) hugs xxxxx |
btw love the ones you mentioned too among others
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:16 |
I actually think the wall and animals are quite similar
here are the lyrics for Pigs (3 different ones)
"Pigs (Three Different Ones)"
Big man, pig man, ha ha, charade you are
You well heeled big wheel, ha ha, charade you are
And when your hand is on your heart
You're nearly a good laugh
Almost a joker
With your head down in the pig bin
Saying "keep on digging"
Pig stain on your fat chin
What do you hope to find?
When you're down in the pig mine
You're nearly a laugh
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry.
Bus stop rat bag, ha ha, charade you are
You f**ked up old hag, ha ha, charade you are
You radiate cold shafts of broken glass
You're nearly a good laugh
Almost worth a quick grin
You like the feel of steel
You're hot stuff with a hat pin
And good fun with a hand gun
You're nearly a laugh
You're nearly a laugh
But you're really a cry.
Hey you Whitehouse, ha ha, charade you are
You house proud town mouse, ha ha, charade you are
You're trying to keep our feelings off the street
You're nearly a real treat
All tight lips and cold feet
And do you feel abused?
.....!.....!.....!.....!
You gotta stem the evil tide
And keep it all on the inside
Mary you're nearly a treat
Mary you're nearly a treat
But you're really a cry. xxxxxxx
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:24 |
Rihanna pls listen to Dogs too :) love that track or at least listen up to 3.42 when the guitar solo starts hugs xxxxx
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:26 |
Barbu wrote:
True. Tales from Topographic Oceans, Selling England by the Pound and Brain Salad Surgery are insignificant compare to The Dark Side of the Moon. |
I heard that.
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:28 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
Barbu wrote:
True. Tales from Topographic Oceans, Selling England by the Pound and Brain Salad Surgery are insignificant compare to The Dark Side of the Moon. | I heard that. |
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:29 |
Kati wrote:
I actually think the wall and animals are quite similar
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I agree and the Wall was a natural extension to Animals IMO. I love Animals but when it first came out, I almost felt betrayed cos it was so different to WYWH. Of course I was wrong about that and grew to love the album. I think Gilmour's solo in Dogs is one of his top three solo's
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:31 |
Chris!!!!!! Wow and yay!!! Ditto! You are my ultimate new fav collab now! hugs xxx
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:32 |
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