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Topic ClosedNeil Peart down on band's 70s work

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infandous View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 10:33
I understand his view on it, though it is a bit of a back hand to the millions of fans who love/loved those albums. Artists need to keep moving forward, and where would Rush be if they had just kept making Hemispheres or 2112 over and over again?  Probably they would be even more loved by the prog world, but have a fraction of their current fame.

I understand the people who feel slighted by his comment, as I generally prefer just about everything before Grace Under Pressure to everything after it.  I'd much rather hear 2112 than Hold Your Fire.  However, there is no question the band progressed very steadily until the mid-90's, where I think they lost the plot.  They seem to have regained some fire with Vapor Trails and Clockowork Angels though.

Still, I think artists are certainly entitled to say whatever they want about their work and I can see how they can be far more critical than any fan or even casual listener of their work would be.  I also feel a bit irritated when David Gilmour and Roger Waters call their pre-Meddle albums "rubbish".  Those are my favorite Floyd albums, and to me it all started to get very clinical and contrived from Dark Side on (though they are all still great albums, nonetheless).

With Rush, I see a much more gradual and steady progression of skill and sophistication from album to album.  Looking back can help reinvigorate an old bands new material, but obviously recreating the past is impossible if it even was desirable. Even fans would probably not be thrilled about Rush putting out Hemispheres 2 or something like that (of course, they'd buy it dutifully anyway I imagine).

Anyway, I don't feel any anger at Peart for his comments.  I just realize he sees his work in a different perspective than I do.  I do think he could have worded it better, because I doubt even he would call those albums worthless (which is how it comes off as, the way he words it).


Edited by infandous - March 14 2014 at 10:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 11:46
Exactly right Mike. I'm not angry about the comments either, I just find it a bit nuts not to be proud of albums like PW, Hemis, and even the early live clip I posted a couple clicks down.  That's wonderful stuff, tons of fun and energy.  Rather than dismiss it completely by saying he'd like to just start at MP, I'd take Ged's lead and be more like....yeah, great fun, and we moved on from there but still appreciate our past. 

I guess it just floored me that someone would *not* be proud of the first seven albums, those works are more than many bands could ever dream of achieving.  It's fine to be most interested and most proud of one's current work, and to want the focus to be there.  I just think you can have both.  A strong preference for your current work and yet a fond appreciation of something like PW and 2112.  But as you say, he's entitled to his view certainly. 




Edited by Finnforest - March 14 2014 at 11:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 11:52
I guess my hopes of them touring Hemispheres in it's entirety are dashed. Oh bother.

They probably couldn't play it now anyway. they all but said in Beyond the Lighted Stage they had enormous trouble playing it back then.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2014 at 11:56
Also to add to the conversation that Alex makes it pretty clear in Beyond The Lighted Stage that he is NOT a fan of at least portions of their post-MP work.

Geddy sort of intimated he liked it BEST, so I guess it's 2 against 1 among the boys.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2014 at 12:17
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Why not Permanent Waves..? Come on Neil. You're starting to show your age. I can understand why he would brush off albums like Hemispheres and Caress of Steel, but MP's sister album? :<


Er, ah, what? Understanding brushing off Hemispheres? I don't. Or Farewell to Kings, for that matter. And Permanent Wave being Moving Pictures' sister album? Nope. More like Moving Pictures' retarded younger brother.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2014 at 12:22
Originally posted by Crumple Crumple wrote:

Also to add to the conversation that Alex makes it pretty clear in Beyond The Lighted Stage that he is NOT a fan of at least portions of their post-MP work.

Geddy sort of intimated he liked it BEST, so I guess it's 2 against 1 among the boys.
 
 
Makes sense...Alex always was the cool one.  Certainly the one you'd want to party with.  Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2014 at 12:39
Rush is a band I would love to hang out with.  Probably more so than 9 out of my 10 favorite bands.  They're just cool.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2014 at 14:33
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Exactly right Mike. I'm not angry about the comments either, I just find it a bit nuts not to be proud of albums like PW, Hemis, and even the early live clip I posted a couple clicks down.  That's wonderful stuff, tons of fun and energy.  Rather than dismiss it completely by saying he'd like to just start at MP, I'd take Ged's lead and be more like....yeah, great fun, and we moved on from there but still appreciate our past. 

I guess it just floored me that someone would *not* be proud of the first seven albums, those works are more than many bands could ever dream of achieving.  It's fine to be most interested and most proud of one's current work, and to want the focus to be there.  I just think you can have both.  A strong preference for your current work and yet a fond appreciation of something like PW and 2112.  But as you say, he's entitled to his view certainly. 




Totally agree about balance.  I think Geddy has the best perspective.  A lot of my favorite artists seem to have that view, that their old stuff is notable and they are proud of it, but they are most proud and happy with the new stuff.  Heck, even if they do think the old stuff was crap, they really should probably not tell that to their fans if they want to keep them Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2014 at 15:04
It's curious also that Neil will criticize Rush's earlier work and yet in 2004 they do a fantastic albums of covers.

I mean if they can do Crossroads and Summertime Blues and have fun why not toss Need Some Love or Best I Can into a few setlists!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2014 at 02:08
Originally posted by Crumple Crumple wrote:

It's curious also that Neil will criticize Rush's earlier work and yet in 2004 they do a fantastic albums of covers.

I mean if they can do Crossroads and Summertime Blues and have fun why not toss Need Some Love or Best I Can into a few setlists!


good point
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 00:53
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Wondering what Rush fans think of a recent Neil Peart quote, which would seem to diss some of their most beloved albums....No 2112, no Hemispheres, no Permanent Waves???  Say it ain't so Neil!  "Those
were the growing years. I often equate that to children's drawings on
the refrigerator that hang around too long, you know?I really
wish they would just go away.  I think we really started....wow, given
my druthers, I would make our first album "Moving Pictures."  I can't
think of a single reason not to do that!"
Great drummer, but I think he's cracked on this one.  I love their early work. 



Holy crap, Neil!!?

Well, I suppose he is entitled to his own opinion.

Man...children's drawings on the fridge kept too long. Well, color me blue cause I'm a little sad he thinks this way.
Although, then again, I prefer 80's Rush the most but HEMISPHERES was such and advanced piece of work; however I do remember RUSH clearly saying/being, as a band, very stressed out while making that album. Don't blame them, really. LA VILLA STRAGIATO...the bench mark of drumming!!! I suppose Neil wouldn't think so.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 01:01
Does this mean Neil thinks VT, S&A, & CA are stronger albums than Hemispheres? If so I would have to strongly (but very respectfully) disagree... :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 06:07
I get what Neil is saying and I don't disagree with him. But, I still like alot of that music. For him though, ya gotta remember, it was a time in his life that is no more. I mean his first wife and child were around then. That could leave a person with a mind-set that has the whole period of their life boxed up ina corner of their memory that may just be better off for them left there. I mean losing a spose is one thing. But losing a child? Your soul may just be ripped apart and everything that surrounded that time period with it. I know I don't wish that on anyone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 11:03
Very perceptive post there.  I remember feeling that the Ayn Randisms were quite tempered on Snakes & Arrows (and some songs even expressed bitter disillusionment) and saying as much to another fan, who then informed me about Peart's personal tragedies.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 11:41
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Very perceptive post there.  I remember feeling that the Ayn Randisms were quite tempered on Snakes & Arrows (and some songs even expressed bitter disillusionment) and saying as much to another fan, who then informed me about Peart's personal tragedies.  
 
Ohhh wow ... so his tragedies are better or worse than our own? To the point where his opinion is more important than yours, so you can buy his record of music?
 
Sorry ... still terribly distorted value system!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 11:50
No, they, that is his tragedies, are not special.  But it can serve to put his comments in perspective if ermmm one is prepared to allow that to the artist rather than cast a prejudiced microscope to all their statements.  

I still fail to understand why there is any obligation for Peart to like all his records.  The artist made a record at a certain point of time in his career. The listener can either buy it and like it for what it is or not, it is his choice.  If the artist's opinion of his own work causes so much grief, don't buy it, simple.  The loss is ultimately yours, not Neil Peart's. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 11:57
And speaking of distorted value systems, demanding artists to challenge the status quo, take risks and make a statement and then also spare your feelings and be dishonest in their appraisal of their own work is what I call a warped sense of values.  The worst that could be said of Peart was he was pretty honest in his views about Rush's older albums.  Hey, go listen to some Kenny G if you just want people who are nice and all that all the time.

Edited by rogerthat - March 30 2014 at 11:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 17:01
Never take musician's opinions on their own music to heart if you disagree; they're much more closely emotionally attached to the music than any fan could ever be, and they experienced the evolution of how their music was made, whereas we come in and listen to the fully finished product.

This is without acknowledging Neil's tragedies.


Edited by darkshade - March 30 2014 at 17:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 20:00
Well said and I agree.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2014 at 20:10
Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

I get what Neil is saying and I don't disagree with him. But, I still like alot of that music. For him though, ya gotta remember, it was a time in his life that is no more. I mean his first wife and child were around then. That could leave a person with a mind-set that has the whole period of their life boxed up ina corner of their memory that may just be better off for them left there. I mean losing a spose is one thing. But losing a child? Your soul may just be ripped apart and everything that surrounded that time period with it. I know I don't wish that on anyone.


Well....Yes his wife and kid were around in the 70s, but they were also around in the 80s and early 90s.  So I don't think this is about the tragedy really.  If it were about boxing away music created during that part of his life, it would include many post MP albums also.  Or do I misunderstand you?Smile
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