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Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Points: 20624
Posted: March 13 2014 at 20:48
Kentucky_Hawkwindage wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Both good guitarists for sure , but being a KC fan I gotta go with Fripp.
And Sabbath only wishes they ever made an album as truly heavy as Red.
I've been trying not to respond to the comment about Sabbath wishing they ever made an album as heavy as Red,but i respectfully beg to differ.While Red truly is an amazing LP & heavy for King Crimson indeed(well 2 tracks i would consider "heavy" the title track Red & One More Red Nightmare).
Most all Sabbath LPs in my opinion would be heavier than Red in my definition of "heavy".I love Both bands,this is just my opinion.
Don't make me drive down to Hardinsburg and straighten you out about what 'heavy' means.
Just kidding of course.....Sabbath is plenty heavy.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: February 15 2014
Location: Hardinsburg,Ky
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Points: 733
Posted: March 13 2014 at 20:35
dr wu23 wrote:
Both good guitarists for sure , but being a KC fan I gotta go with Fripp.
And Sabbath only wishes they ever made an album as truly heavy as Red.
I've been trying not to respond to the comment about Sabbath wishing they ever made an album as heavy as Red,but i respectfully beg to differ.While Red truly is an amazing LP & heavy for King Crimson indeed(well 2 tracks i would consider "heavy" the title track Red & One More Red Nightmare).
Most all Sabbath LPs in my opinion would be heavier than Red in my definition of "heavy".I love Both bands,this is just my opinion.
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Points: 16130
Posted: March 12 2014 at 15:27
Gandalff wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
Fripp, but then I prefer King Crimson to Sabbath. Totally different styles. Difficult to compare really.
Totally, really? Some Robert's riffs approximmates by its force and massiveness to Tony's ones. For example: Red, Larks' Tongues - all parts, Level Five, ProzaKc Blues etc.
The simularity stops at the fact that both play electric guitars, sometimes distorted... Imo.
I love Sabbath, don't get me wrong, but a few episodes of imaginative experimentation aside, Iommi is a metal riff merchant. Fripp has probably dabbled in every rock/pop/funk/jazz guitar style going over the last 40 or so years. His playing on the 80' albums for example is a style that Iommi has never played, come close to, or would probably even want to.
Fripp gets my vote, inc. for most Grumpy "prog God"
Forgive me..but I just discovered your post and I'm laughing and crying at the same time. I find it difficult to believe that Fripp ever surpassed his shocking experience with McDonald & Giles. Do you recall that? They were driving to a show in the state of California when McDonald & Giles announced their departure from King Crimson. Fripp's heart pounded and his stomach dropped. That may seem over the top? Nonsense! That was everything Fripp had ever worked for and he had the carpet pulled from underneath him. It's one of the most devastating experiences a musician can have when rising above all the politics. He turned into a grumpy "prog God" because of his misfortune and after reading endless books and Fripp diary...I have respect for him surviving the wrath of the music business.
Joined: September 03 2006
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Posted: March 08 2014 at 23:50
FWIW, there's even a War Pigs-like riff lurking in the background during the beautiful saxophone solo on One More Red Nightmare. Black Sabbath could well have been the inspiration for Fripp wanting to make a 'heavy metal' album. I don't know that he has confirmed that and given that he tends to describe any regular rock guitarist as some loathsome hairy creature, I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't.
Joined: September 03 2006
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Posted: March 08 2014 at 23:48
dr wu23 wrote:
Both good guitarists for sure , but being a KC fan I gotta go with Fripp.
And Sabbath only wishes they ever made an album as truly heavy as Red.
And here comes the good ol' No True Scotsman fallacy. It's quite infallible as a fallback though. I wonder what truly heavy is supposed to mean. There is no rock album (that is prog plus non prog) that I love more than Red but I don't think it is as heavy as Dehumanizer. There's a video of a concert that aginor posted and it helps for the sake of comparison. Unfortunately, post-Ozzy Sabbath is for whatever reason excluded from discussion as if that band didn't exist. Red was tremendously heavy for 1974. But 1992 even Dehumanizer was just heavy metal.
Joined: February 15 2014
Location: Hardinsburg,Ky
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Points: 733
Posted: March 08 2014 at 14:50
Extremely tuff call...............Let me think.....................Mr. Iommi gets my vote.I was cranking Black Sabbath up long,long before i discovered King Crimson.What's ironic is i now listen to K.C. more than Sabbath. Uh i think we all knew the Poll maker meant "Tony".
They are both innovators of inventive styles on guitar that changed the way music was being played prior to the surfacing of the 2 in the music business. They are both important regarding change.
Technique is a entire different observation. First of all...Fripp was very schooled or sounded extremely schooled dating back to 68' on the Giles, Giles, & Fripp album. Tony Iommi had a short spell with Jethro Tull during that time and I'm unsure if he was to Fripp's level then. I believe he appears on the film "Rock n' Roll Circus"? Fripp had an amazing technique early on with cross picking 24 notes of the Tri Tone ..Devil's interval and then in reverse with absolute precision like a Jazz guitarist. I'm unsure if Tony Iommi was playing this sort of guitar style and it's possible that Fripp was more advanced.
Iommi may have had no interest in playing that way and in some sense..it is pointless to bring this to the table..however ..it comes to mind due to the extreme difference between the 2 of them regarding technique. Iommi had damaged his hand and he had a lot going for him in the area of re-development. He must get credit for that because it's a task that many musicians may have dismissed and threw in the towel. Iommi progressed as a player on Heaven & Hell. That was obvious. He even changed his sound a bit. His licks were faster and cleaner by that point in time. Fripp had been playing pieces by Paganini in the 60's and Iommi may have been playing more of a Blues style then...which...is self explanatory as to how he may have impressed Jethro Tull and got the gig. What I've heard from Mick Abrahams on This Was really didn't differ all that much from Iommi's abilities as a guitarist. Martin Barre also added a heavy attack on bass strings...just like Iommi did on Master of Reality. Iommi had a "hot lick" style where he added trills between note passages and it was appealing for the times. He may be more progressive than any of us are aware of today. I pick both.
He is. Iommi used not just the tri tone but minor major 7th intervals in his work. This is how he generates his riffs and gives Sabbath that rather unique sound some try and copy and fail. It's not just detuning guitars for heaviness. The Rock And Roll Doctor didn't get his honorary doctorate for just keeping Sabbath on a resuscitator in the 80s you know.
Just wonder why Fripp has no honorary doctorate or knighthood... Naturally both gents are essential listening.
Tommy, (really, Tommy?) (sic) and Bob (well as he used to be) Fripp are both great examples of how youcan get an electric guiatr, plug it in (the important bit before the strumming) and get two unique identities that I would not be withoutin my collection.
Thanks for posting this vid! Very cool! Don't forget to read my last post on the thread Black Sabbath vs. Rush. I remember a vid where Iommi was pulling gifts out of a bag. He pulls out a book on witchcraft and he says.."I'm not going to say anything". He was well aware of the hype and accusations of the band for years and needed to say that. I think it's hilarious.
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Robert Fripp or Tony Iommi
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Kentucky_Hawkwindage wrote:
Imo.
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