Neil Peart down on band's 70s work |
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Biff Tannen
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 13 2010 Location: St. Louis, USA Status: Offline Points: 159 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 11:34 | |
Actually, that quote is from 2004, in the Contents Under Pressure book.
As for what he thinks, it doesn't faze me at all. I don't agree with him, and he is not the first artist to have what the majority would call a crazy opinion about his own work.
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"What are you looking at, butthead?"
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Menswear
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 02 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 63 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 12:34 | |
HOt DaNg somebody messed up his meds or what?!!
The guy is suffering of what I call: 'Peter Gabriel Syndrome' Gabriel will NEVER admit that his best work (by far) was with Genesis, in that period where he was experimenting without not much of a clue sometimes. Perhaps Neil is judging Power Windows or Test for Echo more 'intelligent', more structured than Permanent Waves or A Farewell to Kings. Personnally, and people WILL agree with me, we liked when Rush had more balls and experimented. Presto over Hémisphères? Clockwork Angels over Fly by Night? Hold your Fire better than Farewell to Kings? Heavenly God NO! |
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 25 2011 Location: internet Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 12:39 | |
*Sees Rush thread* *Comes out of hiding*
I think he has a point to an extent. I would agree with Neil (and the rest of the band) that Rush really found their sound around the PW/MP era; their earlier efforts were ambitions (and occasionally brilliant) but they only really achieved a consistently cohesive, mature sound around 1980 or so. The ideas were there, they weren't just developed in the same skillful, subtle way that they were in the 80s and afterward. If you actually analyze Rush songs from a compositional standpoint (and I'm a composer of both classical and rock music) you start to realize that although early Rush sounds more ambitious and complex on the surface, it actually gets more compositionally interesting as you get into the 80s; the band gets better at actually developing the themes they introduce (their ideas were incredible in the 70s but they really didn't do a whole lot with them); they start to introduce variations over the course of a verse-chorus structure instead of merely repeating sections with different lyrics; the music just generally becomes more intricate and yeah, they get better at writing melodies. Plus, the lyrics get better; not that they were bad in the 70s, but they were a bit obvious in their imagery and the way they conveyed their messages. I can't agree with Neil in his outright dismissal of the band's early work; their youthful energy, ambition, and potential produced some great stuff and some outright masterpieces, including 2112 (the song) and Hemispheres (the album). Although they hadn't matured as songwriters yet, they were still brilliant musicians who hadn't quite brought their craft to mastery. I think this thread illustrates why I like Vapor Trails so much; it perfectly fuses the raw aggression and energy of Rush's early years with the intricate maturity of their later period. |
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Biff Tannen
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 13 2010 Location: St. Louis, USA Status: Offline Points: 159 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 12:40 | |
I don't think he is saying that ever Rush album they did from the 1980 till now is better than every 70s album, but that those 70s albums when they were experimenting were like starter albums and Moving Pictures was, in his view, the first album where they got it all right. If you read the Contents Under Pressure book, Neil is very fond of the synth era albums (1982-1987), which I can see since that is when he was at his best lyrical peak, he was more experimental with drums during that time period, and his drum sound was awesome then.
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"What are you looking at, butthead?"
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17847 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 12:49 | |
Straight from the horses mouth........I agree, and yea VT kicks a$$.
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 13:16 | |
I perfectly understand his sentiments, although I am somewhat irritated by the manner in which he conveys them. Same goes for Floyd when they continuously bash Atom Heart Mother. The thing is that rock, and experimental rock in general , still is a rather new entity in the giant scope of music history. The artists uttering these opinions with the power of hindsight never really had the opportunity to experience something similar from a fan's point of view. Maybe they'd feel similarly if Paul McCartney one day announced that Rubber Soul through Abbey Road were mere childish efforts cooked up by a bunch of drug addicts trying to get with the prevailing psychedelic whims of society? I don't know, but I'd like to see them experience the other side of the coin some time, where they'd face some of their most beloved artists spit venom at their most treasured musical moments.
I recently saw some tv broadcast where Clapton was interviewed while doing the Cream reunion at the Albert Hall, where he spoke about the wah wah pedal like it was nothing. "It doesn't add anything, it just makes a sound" - and here I am paraphrasing dear ol' Eric, but it told me a lot about where he stands today as an artist, and perhaps even more so what he thinks about the music of those early days...... and to bridge that with both Rush and Floyd: Maybe these old farts merely have turned old and dull - unable to feel and hear the fire and excitement of that ever so fleeting, yet for me most essential, nerve? Maybe most musicians turn into some kind of pseudo sportsmen as they get older - forever chasing the perfectly recorded solo, chorus, bridge - like some ocd gaming junkie always looking to better his score? And in the midst of all this they forget about what makes the music, the mistakes that turn into brilliant shimmers of music that you can't replicate because it was a once-in-a-lifetime-thing that felt good at the time, - forget that half of the music is noise: the feedback, the echo of the bass pedal, the plinking of the piano, the sound of fingers rolling across the bands of the guitar - all of that.....and today most of em seek to erase those things because they feel it sounds unprofessional and wrong, because there is only room for perfection and metronome-like behaviour. I know I know - different strokes for different folks.....I just enjoy the naive, the unforeseen and the nerve - and I love the mistakes that turn out to be something else entirely: something magical. Just think about how Jimi Hendrix would've sounded like if he had had this kind of approach to making music. We would never have heard Machine Gun for once, and that would be a horrible crime against the art of music imho.
Edited by Guldbamsen - February 26 2014 at 13:19 |
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26138 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 14:14 | |
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, QC Status: Offline Points: 5285 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 14:56 | |
Neil will try to stop this to come out, because it covers almost all the period he prefer to forget!
http://www.bravewords.com/news/218706 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28059 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 16:06 | |
twin twin necks
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 19:41 | |
Rush' best two albums are Hemispheres and Vapor Trails. In other words, old or new, it's good stuff.
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The Neck Romancer
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 01 2010 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 10185 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 20:46 | |
This
This too
Edited by The Neck Romancer - February 26 2014 at 20:50 |
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17188 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 20:51 | |
Definitely. Maybe Neil had a brain fart and meant to name Waves but messed up. That album really is the beginning of the "new sound" they pursued and refined up through Power Windows. Sometimes rock veterans say weird things. I recall on eMpTyVee, when it used to be a music-focused network, an interview circa the early '90s where Rikki Rachtman asked Glenn Danzig if he would play Misfits and/or Samhain songs on his solo tour of the time. Glenn politely but sternly replied that those bands were of a certain time, and if you'd missed the boat, too bad. Fast-forward to the late '90s, and Glenn not only sustained his then-tour by playing Misfits songs, he had his former bandmate Doyle von Frankenstein join him for those songs every single night. In the late '80s Edgar Froese let slip some rumor that he was going to retire Tangerine Dream after the 1988 tour. He's still going 25 years later...and not only that, he's milked the band's legacy thoroughly, including but not limited to (as if!) re-recording/re-releasing Phaedra and Tangram, two of TD's most beloved recordings. Whether you consider it art or heresy, it's pretty clear Edgar does it to get a few more dollars. |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12732 |
Posted: February 26 2014 at 22:25 | |
I find it weir really. Perhaps if he was referring to their first 2 albums (or three, if you count the very first without him) it would be easier to agree, but after 2112 (and until "Moving Pictures" or "Signals") you would have what, at least here, would be considered their essential material. Many talk here about artists getting better because of experience, and being perhaps too young at their early 20's to make great albums... however, what I have seen is that most of the major masterpieces, at least from prog, come from their early albums (perhaps not the earliest, sometimes they needed 2 or 3 albums to get polished and take out their best), and those albums were usually made by people at their early 20's. And usually they just can't capture the same magic again later in their life, no matter how much experience they have obtained. Perhaps they get to do some great songs or even an album if they are "lucky", but it seems that many of those artists had certain amount of brilliance to give, and once it is spent, they already gave the best they had to give.
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geogkrt
Forum Newbie Joined: April 13 2012 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Posted: February 27 2014 at 05:41 | |
He can have his own opinion like everyone else (and even though he was a member of the band I don't think his opinion matters anymore than the hardcore fans). In my opinion, their best album is A Farewell to Kings.
Edited by geogkrt - February 27 2014 at 05:42 |
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Leroy2112
Forum Newbie Joined: February 19 2014 Location: Las Vegas Status: Offline Points: 15 |
Posted: February 27 2014 at 06:23 | |
Speaking in a musician point of view... (any art for that matter)
Stuff I wrote years ago; I also see as amateur compared to my new material though people still my friends and family still love my old stuff? I evolve with my material Indeed Rush's 2112, hemispheres, *everything before moving pictures!! lol was and still is amazing to the fan! but to the musician it's old news!!! (and having to think they use to play 200 concerts a year back when they were first getting recognized? I think anyone would get tired of playing the same songs over and over again) RUSH STILL RULES lol
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King Crimson776
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 12 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2779 |
Posted: February 28 2014 at 02:26 | |
I've recently gained an appreciation for albums like Grace Under Pressure and Power Windows. 80's Rush is immaculately produced music. I would never call the songs great, but the tones are really beautiful.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Posted: February 28 2014 at 02:44 | |
^ Agreed, and as much as I dislike GUP, it is when Alex's playing really takes on the unique tone-oriented style it has.
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 22 2005 Location: Wuhan, China Status: Offline Points: 1455 |
Posted: February 28 2014 at 03:10 | |
Maybe Peart is just admitting (like Collins with Genesis) that he can play prog, but he doesn't prefer it. From "Moving Pictures" on into the 80s, there are shades of prog on Rush albums (similar to Yes and Genesis of the same period), but nothing that comes close to the quintessential prog of the 70s...
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28059 |
Posted: February 28 2014 at 03:14 | |
Interesting especially about TD. 1988 was actually the natural end of TD as a creative enterprise but I guess that it was easier to get record companies to release albums that had that name so it sort of continued even though it was mainly just him and his son. The Booster series are very nice and I have the first 4 , but the recycling and duplication of previously recorded music is not a creative exercise that's for sure so one can conclude that money is a big part of it.
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Metalmarsh89
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 15 2013 Location: Oregon, USA Status: Offline Points: 2673 |
Posted: February 28 2014 at 12:27 | |
Neil's mustache from the 1970's is still something to be jealous of.
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